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post #41 of 79 Old 02-10-2017 Thread Starter
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Re: Water based anti-fouling in the Chesapeake

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Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
Initially when we paint our bottom, we DO PAINT our prop and shaft with Prop Speed. I don't find it to be a "foolish practice " and no it doesn't come off in a motor to the C&D Canal.

I guess you were assuming it was an ablative paint the same as went on the fiberglass/ barrier coat...
Dave, go back and read the thread more carefully.

Andre said he uses Hydrocoat. Nobody debates that it is an ablative paint. Most would say that an ablative paint is not appropriate to go on a prop, because it will not last long. That is a statement that I am willing to stand by. Call that authoritative, if you will.

Someone else criticized the Hydrocoat because Andre saw barnacles on his prop and shaft. I interpreted Andre's message to mean he had left the prop and shaft without paint, so that's not the fault of Hydrocoat. If I was wrong and he did actually put Hydrocoat on his prop, that's not the paint's fault either, because it's a misuse of an ablative paint. But I don't think he did that, though I'm open to being corrected if I'm wrong.

I never said that no paints are suitable for a prop. There are several zinc-based hard paints that are designed for use on a prop, including the one that you use. In fact, I pointed out that I had used one and plan to use it again. It is generally known that such prop paints do not last as long as bottom paint, but they are often better than nothing, and they last a lot longer than ablative would on a prop. Putting prop paint on a prop is good advice. Putting ablative bottom paint on a prop...not so much -- as I stated in my prior message.

I am open to trying new things on my prop, but I cannot find any WestMarine-branded prop paint on their website. It appears that the only ones they have in a spray can are made by Pettit. Please post a link to the WestMarine paint.

Rick S., Swarthmore, PA
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Re: Water based anti-fouling in the Chesapeake

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Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
Dave, go back and read the thread more carefully.

Andre said he uses Hydrocoat. Nobody debates that it is an ablative paint. Most would say that an ablative paint is not appropriate to go on a prop, because it will not last long. That is a statement that I am willing to stand by. Call that authoritative, if you will.

Someone else criticized the Hydrocoat because Andre saw barnacles on his prop and shaft. I interpreted Andre's message to mean he had left the prop and shaft without paint, so that's not the fault of Hydrocoat. If I was wrong and he did actually put Hydrocoat on his prop, that's not the paint's fault either, because it's a misuse of an ablative paint. But I don't think he did that, though I'm open to being corrected if I'm wrong.

I never said that no paints are suitable for a prop. There are several zinc-based hard paints that are designed for use on a prop, including the one that you use. In fact, I pointed out that I had used one and plan to use it again. It is generally known that such prop paints do not last as long as bottom paint, but they are often better than nothing, and they last a lot longer than ablative would on a prop. Putting prop paint on a prop is good advice. Putting ablative bottom paint on a prop...not so much -- as I stated in my prior message.

I am open to trying new things on my prop, but I cannot find any WestMarine-branded prop paint on their website. It appears that the only ones they have in a spray can are made by Pettit. Please post a link to the WestMarine paint.

I stand by my statement.
Gary has told you also he has used transducer paint to effectively retard growth. There are many homespun personal ways people have to prevent prop/ shaft growth

BTW I beleive you are inaccurate in identifying the protectant I put on my prop and shaft, Prop Speed , as a zinc base. You must be confusing it with Prop Kote or one of those silver - grey petit paints.

Prop speed is a two part processs with a cleaning etching acid process followed quickly by the polymer clear coat coating.

The paints you have mistakenly referred to me using contain zinc as a biocide working on the same principal as a bottom paint like the aforementioned Hydrocoat. It works by killing the organisms.

Prop Speed is a slippery polymer , hard coated which doesn't kill the organisms rather it prevents them from attaching. Prop Speed like Ultima 60 is used on many commercial vessels

Also by the way, you Paint the Propspeed on by using roller and brushes. It isn't cheap, buts it's very effective.


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Re: Water based anti-fouling in the Chesapeake

I meant transducer paint. Sloppy typing.

https://www.westmarine.com/search?Ntt=transducer+paint

Westmarine branded transducer paint not shown in a spray can. Pettit only in the spray can. I have (and use) the MDR brush-on stuff on my transducers. Gary, please post a link since I'd like to look into it for my prop.

That's fine if you have a different kind of prop paint. No problem with that. I know that many are also based on zinc. More types is better, since different waters may need different ingredients.

Thanks for the info. I'm happy to hear all suggestions. Hostility not needed.

Rick S., Swarthmore, PA
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Re: Water based anti-fouling in the Chesapeake

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Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
I meant transducer paint. Sloppy typing.

https://www.westmarine.com/search?Ntt=transducer+paint

Westmarine branded transducer paint not shown in a spray can. Pettit only in the spray can. I have (and use) the MDR brush-on stuff on my transducers. Gary, please post a link since I'd like to look into it for my prop.

That's fine if you have a different kind of prop paint. No problem with that. I know that many are also based on zinc. More types is better, since different waters may need different ingredients.

Thanks for the info. I'm happy to hear all suggestions. Hostility not needed.
No hostility meant.

Just answering your quip "Dave, go back and read the thread more carefully." That could b e considered hostile Rick.

Let's move on
My point was Prop Speed is way different than all the other prop paints
They base their effectiveness on preventing growth on the same principal as regular bottom paint which is the use of a biocide, while Prop Speed is taking the growth issue from a different angle completely and it's basis is to make the prop too slippery to attach to.

The beauty of the Prop Speed is it doesn't wear off as quickly as the other paints thus it is more effective for a longer period of time. While it seems expensive , it means maybe one- less diver trips therefore more than paying for itself.

Also my diver has told me that even when the Prop Speed finally starts to become less effective, the growth comes off the Prop/ shaft with a mere wipe of a green pad vs scraping.

I a, not connected withOrop Speed in any way


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Re: Water based anti-fouling in the Chesapeake

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Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
Dave, go back and read the thread more carefully.

Andre said he uses Hydrocoat. Nobody debates that it is an ablative paint. Most would say that an ablative paint is not appropriate to go on a prop, because it will not last long. That is a statement that I am willing to stand by. Call that authoritative, if you will.

Someone else criticized the Hydrocoat because Andre saw barnacles on his prop and shaft. I interpreted Andre's message to mean he had left the prop and shaft without paint, so that's not the fault of Hydrocoat. If I was wrong and he did actually put Hydrocoat on his prop, that's not the paint's fault either, because it's a misuse of an ablative paint. But I don't think he did that, though I'm open to being corrected if I'm wrong.
Just to confirm, that is correct- the shaft and prop were not painted, so yes - that is the control comparison showing barnacles can grow pretty rapidly at Worton on unprotected surface.

I agree a 5 week test is not very long, however I was following the suggestion of the OP to stick to experiences within the last two years. I briefly mentioned HydroCoat experience in years prior also in Worton for the entire season, that a gentle scrub would bring up fresh ablative paint and protected pretty well over the first year. ( I recoat each spring as I am out of the water for the winter anyway).

Cheers.
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Re: Water based anti-fouling in the Chesapeake

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Just to confirm, that is correct- the shaft and prop were not painted, so yes - that is the control comparison showing barnacles can grow pretty rapidly at Worton on unprotected surface.

I agree a 5 week test is not very long, however I was following the suggestion of the OP to stick to experiences within the last two years. I briefly mentioned HydroCoat experience in years prior also in Worton for the entire season, that a gentle scrub would bring up fresh ablative paint and protected pretty well over the first year. ( I recoat each spring as I am out of the water for the winter anyway).

Cheers.
Thanks for clarifying.
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Re: Water based anti-fouling in the Chesapeake

Take Five, I used the Petit brand - I purchased it at WM. https://www.westmarine.com/buy/petti...02?recordNum=1

What really amazed me was during my stay in the Florida Keys the bottom of the boat grew a thick, long coat of angle hair algae that extended from the waterline down to about 2 feet. It measured about 12 inches long and really put a drag on the hull while sailing. I contracted a local diver who scraped my hull clean for $2 a foot using plastic scrapers and rubber squeegees. When he got to the prop, he said it looked like I had just painted it the day before he arrived. It was spotless. After several months in the keys, I snorkeled beneath the boat and that prop was still spotless. From that time on, I was hooked on the transducer paint.

Good luck,

Gary
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Re: Water based anti-fouling in the Chesapeake

FWIW, I've used Rustoleum Cold Galvanizing compound on my prop the last two seasons and have had zero growth issues. It stays on pretty well through a season and seems to do a great job warding off growth hard or soft.

I've been told it was the same thing as Petit Barnacle Barrier but 1/3 the price. I can't attest to it being the same thing, only that I've had the same results as marina neighbors that used the Petit product.

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Re: Water based anti-fouling in the Chesapeake

Pettit SR 40 or SR60 hands down

Shawn


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Re: Water based anti-fouling in the Chesapeake

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No one mentioned 1-year vs. 2-year. I would think most people in Rockhall haul out each winter and would be just as well (better?) served by a 1-year paint....
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...Sorry I wasn't more clear about this previously: I've always used multi-year paints. My routine is to do two coats on the bottom in odd numbered years, and do a heavy polish/wax above the waterline in even numbered years. I don't like doing both in the same year because I usually like to do the wax very early in the spring, and I don't want to risk getting wax on the bottom before painting. This year I may have to do both, so I need to paint first.

Much as I'm a creature of habit, there's no law that I can't paint every year. It's a bit of a pain to mask off the waterline, and it's just nice not to have to endure the chore every year. But since I'm in a heavier fouling area than I've been in before (for hard growth), a fresh coat every year might be the safest protection since I haul out anyway. I do know that the real cheapo stuff that Herrington Harbor used (AkzoNobel Nautical Proguard Ablative) worked GREAT for one season, and there are only a few thin spots on my boat, so a heavier coat in those places and a light thinned coat over the rest of the boat might be just the recipe. And by using the same stuff, I don't have to worry about compatibility. So I may just stick with it for ~$80/gallon.

By the way, when I say it worked great, I was amazed to see my boat come out of the water with absolutely no slime at all. No hard growth either, except for prop and shaft that were protected by Zinc Barnacle Guard. It's possible that the bottom was sloughed off by the 14 hour trip just prior to haulout, but that's a good sign!...
I had an extensive discussion this week with the Interlux phone tech in Florida. As a result of that discussion, I think I'm going to continue with the same paint that's on the boat now: Nautical ProGuard Ablative made by AkzoNobel. Here's why:

I started by telling the guy that the ProGuard worked great for - first time I've ever pulled out my boat and found NOTHING on the bottom. I'd never seen that before on my other boat. He said, "Yeah, I've heard that about the ProGuard before."

Drawing on my paint formulation background, we got into a discussion of the AkzoNobel's design philosophy for ProGuard, including specific compositional details that are disclosed on the MSDS. Specifically, I zeroed in on the fact that the composition discloses natural rosin as a binder, but no synthetic polymer resin. He told me that AkzoNobel designs ProGuard as an industrial paint to be sold directly to boat yards at a lower price point than their Interlux brands. They keep the Interlux brand off the paint so they don't erode their margins on the Interlux lines.

He said that the rosin is less expensive than synthetic resins, which makes the paint a little less expensive to manufacture, and makes it a softer ablative than their multi-year paints. They refuse to guarantee it for more than one season because it ablates too fast to last two seasons on a powerboat at 20-30 knots. But he said that it's potentially a perfect paint for sailboats that only see a max of 8 kts STW, and would likely last 2 seasons or more unless you're crossing oceans and sailing 24/7.

The key point seems to be that most multi-year ablative paints are engineered to be harder ablatives that can withstand high speeds and trailering of power boats, which make up the bulk of their market. But this design philosophy is the wrong thing for a sailboat, which would likely be better protected by a softer ablative.

It's also very nice that it can be cleaned and thinned down using ordinary Xylene and/or Acetone from Home Depot, instead of custom blended thinners. It's definitely not as good as soap-and-water cleanup of a water based paint, but at least you're not getting gouged by needing to buy quarts #120 thinner or equivalent.

Based on this advice, I'm going to continue to stick with the $80/gallon ProGuard Ablative paint. I'll put a thin coat over the whole boat, and two or more coats in the thin spots, wear points, and along the waterline. I'll continue to judge how it's working after multiple seasons, and switch to a different paint in future years if I need to.

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