Water based anti-fouling in the Chesapeake - Page 6 - SailNet Community
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post #51 of 79 Old 04-02-2017
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Re: Water based anti-fouling in the Chesapeake

Its a crapshoot!!!!
The salinity (re: -barnacles , etc.) of the Upper Chesapeake varies greatly with the direction of the prevailing winds.
In those years with predominant S-SW winds there will be considerable 'mixing' of the north flowing seawater along the bottom with the more fresh water going south on top - reduced 'hard growth and slime'.
In those years with primarily westerlies, mixing is reduced and barnacles and hard growth and 'slime' tend to thrive.
Its a crapshoot for bottom paint selection on the upper Ches. vs. barnacles and slime.

Barnacles tend to be more intense the further north you are on the upper bay --- probably influenced also by whatever mixing is occurring on the Delaware Bay and the season to season flow differences though the C&D into the Ches.

A few zebra mussels have supposedly been identified below the Conowingo Dam ... and that has the potential to change 'everything'.

As to water-based coatings, for myself I think I'll wait until there's more successful usage history. Im also hesitant to change to some water based coating, find it insufficient to control what I want .... and then have to go through a bursitis aching episode in removing it in order to replace it with any new a more 'wonderful' offering.
I used to use Micron-Extra (w/ Irgarol) with high success and will simply go back one step and return to Micron-CSC for the interim ... and move to a slip where there is more 'moving' water under the boat.

BTW - after diving overboard and hand cleaning intense slime from my hull last summer, I contracted yet another severe mycobacteria infection whose 'after effects' after 6 months still has me severely 'under the weather'. So, Im more keenly interested than ever in better slime and barnacle control for the upper Ches.
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post #52 of 79 Old 04-03-2017 Thread Starter
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Re: Water based anti-fouling in the Chesapeake

I agree that fouling conditions can vary from year-to-year and location-to-location.

But back to my prior point, a soft ablative that sloughs off easily at typical sailing speeds of <8 kts can be a great equalizer. Since the cheap stuff that I ended up with last year worked so well, and there's lots of it left on most of the boat, I've decided to try just putting some more on this year.

I'm a "weekend warrior" who hauls out every winter, so I think this may be a good approach for me. YMMV. But I will assert that paints that are designed for multiple seasons on a planing powerboat may be the wrong paint for a sailboat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichH View Post
...BTW - after diving overboard and hand cleaning intense slime from my hull last summer, I contracted yet another severe mycobacteria infection whose 'after effects' after 6 months still has me severely 'under the weather'. So, Im more keenly interested than ever in better slime and barnacle control for the upper Ches.
Ouch, I feel for you! Perhaps a softer paint that comes off without the need to dive in might have less adverse health effects.

FWIW, I did jump in once last season and used a push broom on my bottom. I consider myself lucky that I didn't get a similar infection, and hope to avoid doing that this year. But then again, my bottom seemed awfully clean before brushing, so maybe there wasn't much there to infect me. I didn't want to reach in and feel for slime, so I just pushed the broom along the bottom without really checking.

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post #53 of 79 Old 04-04-2017
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Re: Water based anti-fouling in the Chesapeake

Let's face it...if I pulled my boat every year...I would use the cheap stuff too. Why use expensive paint and pay for it to be hauled every year. It would be a no brainier and not need a lot of large discussion. Most of us are weekend warriors. The real difference is between the year round in the water vs the 7 months in 5 months out

I prefer not to pull the boat and stick her in 8 jackstands on land for many reasons
1- added expense , lots of expense which I can put to use to charter someplace nice once a year
2- I hate hearing my mast humming in the wind like a tuning fork with no where for the energy to go except down 8 jackstands. At least
In the water the energy is disapated
3- the least amount of time Haleakula goes into the slings or for that matter jack stands the less chance for pressure to be put on specific
Points of her structure which really are not designed for that.
4- it's much harder for me to work on anything internal in Haleakula if I have to go up a ladder.
5- like Sisyphus repetitively painting every year is an excercise in futility.
6- the least amount of times I have to sand/ paint around those toxic chemicals the better
7- I am not at the mercy of some one telling me I must be pulled by a certain time and the fretting / being upset about being
Blocked in when I want to launch. This shortens the sailing season.

For those of us who leave our boats in the water multiple years the choice of bottom paint is much more critical. Also a certified diver to mind it a couple times a season is a good policy.

Like I said if I was a one year at a time boater, I would look for the cheapest paint. At $80 a gallon that certainly fits the bill. But let's face it you get what you pay for. Spending $120 more a gallon or $240 more ( which really is minor , and because it is on for 3 years actually is the same cost per year at $80) when we used Micron Extra or CSC they were good two year paints. The Ultima has allowed us three with two dives a year. I never worry about our bottom paint since we switched. Also many have my friends who use Ultima either 40 or 60 never consider going back.

One of our criteria for a marina was one which had fixed piers and also the fee was for year round usage. This actually cuts down on our expense of hauling.

So you can choose to roll that boulder up the hill every year, and then let it roll down, or spend your time on other pleasurable things than painting the bottom of the boat.
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Re: Water based anti-fouling in the Chesapeake

I'm not sure I understand the difference in "ease of clean-up" with water-based paint.

1. Rollers are disposable either way.
2. You hardly use a brush, so a chip brush is fine.
3. Washing off a copper-laden brush with water, either on land or over a sink, is basically illegal. Copper discharge to the sanitary sewer is restricted to PPM levels in the sewer ordinance. So while household disposal is basically exempt, washing off a brush is environmentally wrong, and the ability to wash out is irrelevant.
4. It shouldn't be on your skin--that is what gloves are for.
5. It's going to dry onto the tray either way. Same with the mixer. And washing them is environmentally wrong--see 3.

So basically, no difference. Bottom paint is not house paint. The ingredients are toxic and should not be washed down the drain. Just let them dry and pitch them.

(Charles County, MD. Many areas are more strict, and industrial limits are more strict.)

(4) Local Limits
The following pollutant limits are established to protect against pass
through and interference. No person shall discharge wastewater
containing in excess of the following: (daily maximums)
PARAMETER DAILY MAXIMUM (MG/L)
Total Arsenic 3.45 mg/l
Total Cadmium 1.37 mg/l
Total Chromium 1.78 mg/l
Total Copper 2.14 mg/l
Total Cyanide 0.94 mg/l
Total Lead 5.01 mg/l
Total Mercury 0.008 mg/l
Total Nickel 36.94 mg/l
Total Silver 0.45 mg/l
Total Zinc 1.21 mg/l
Total Molybdenum 0.25 MG/L
Total Selenium 0.05 MG/L
BOD5 350 MG/L
Total Suspended Solids 400 MG/L
Ammonia 45 MG/L

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Re: Water based anti-fouling in the Chesapeake

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdqaltair View Post
I'm not sure I understand the difference in "ease of clean-up" with water-based paint.
I always chuck my rollers, brushes, and roller trays without attempting to clean them but I've never successfully painted the bottom of a boat without getting at least a small amount of paint on myself somewhere.

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Re: Water based anti-fouling in the Chesapeake

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Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
I prefer not to pull the boat and stick her in 8 jackstands on land for many reasons
I've come to agree with you on not hauling out at wintertime. Can't stand the rat race to get boats splashed in the spring. At most yards you'd have to haul in September to not be pressured in the spring. September and October are my favorite sailing months. Any work I've had to do with resins or sealants has been tricky during winters. Good luck getting a sustained run of days with lows above 50 degrees (especially weekend days!) in March and good luck cramming all the sealant/resin work into the first weeks of April if you're blocking other boats.

Much prefer to do maintenance haul outs in July or August. Sure, the heat is awful, but not a bad part of the sailing season to have to miss out on. My yard offers a week "free" on land before you're supposed to start paying rent, but they're not very strict with that during the slow season. Everything is much more laid back they don't have 100 other customers breathing down their necks to splash. In the summer they've been much more responsive about things like repositioning jack stands and making sure I had power and water. I've had them keep the boat in the slings overnight to paint the bottom of the keel while in the spring mad rush there's never time for that.
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Re: Water based anti-fouling in the Chesapeake

this staying in the water all year intrigues me.
I had assumed that all boats were hauled out in case of ice damage, but does the water ever freeze over?

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Re: Water based anti-fouling in the Chesapeake

This year all we ever had in the creeks of the Patapsco was a skim of ice for a couple of days during the coldest cold snap. That's pretty normal although we had a hard freeze in 2015 for about 2 weeks. The northern bay and eastern shore can be more susceptible to sustained freezing. Bubblers do a good job keeping it at bay. During the 2015 freeze, my boat got frozen in hard and suffered no more ice damage than superficial scratches to the bottom paint near the water line.

My own view is that the risk of hull damage from ice (at least in this area) is minimal. Docks tend to take more damage than boats. The bigger increased risk is sinking, and this should not be a significant concern if the cockpit drainage system is in good condition and the through-hulls are in good condition and properly winterized. Of course, everyone's own mileage may vary and I leave it to you to do your own research and check your own insurance requirements.

I think people haul out mainly for peace of mind. When the boat's in the water I tend to check on it every 2-3 weeks. When it's on land I've gone as long as 2 months. Also, a lot of marinas incentivize hauling out by charging a separate "winter storage" fee whether you stay in or haul out.
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Re: Water based anti-fouling in the Chesapeake

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdqaltair View Post
I'm not sure I understand the difference in "ease of clean-up" with water-based paint.

1. Rollers are disposable either way.
2. You hardly use a brush, so a chip brush is fine.
3. Washing off a copper-laden brush with water, either on land or over a sink, is basically illegal. Copper discharge to the sanitary sewer is restricted to PPM levels in the sewer ordinance. So while household disposal is basically exempt, washing off a brush is environmentally wrong, and the ability to wash out is irrelevant.
4. It shouldn't be on your skin--that is what gloves are for.
5. It's going to dry onto the tray either way. Same with the mixer. And washing them is environmentally wrong--see 3.

So basically, no difference. Bottom paint is not house paint. The ingredients are toxic and should not be washed down the drain. Just let them dry and pitch them.

(Charles County, MD. Many areas are more strict, and industrial limits are more strict.)

(4) Local Limits
The following pollutant limits are established to protect against pass
through and interference. No person shall discharge wastewater
containing in excess of the following: (daily maximums)
PARAMETER DAILY MAXIMUM (MG/L)
Total Arsenic 3.45 mg/l
Total Cadmium 1.37 mg/l
Total Chromium 1.78 mg/l
Total Copper 2.14 mg/l
Total Cyanide 0.94 mg/l
Total Lead 5.01 mg/l
Total Mercury 0.008 mg/l
Total Nickel 36.94 mg/l
Total Silver 0.45 mg/l
Total Zinc 1.21 mg/l
Total Molybdenum 0.25 MG/L
Total Selenium 0.05 MG/L
BOD5 350 MG/L
Total Suspended Solids 400 MG/L
Ammonia 45 MG/L
Even more reason not to paint every year


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Last edited by chef2sail; 04-04-2017 at 12:23 PM.
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post #60 of 79 Old 04-04-2017
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Re: Water based anti-fouling in the Chesapeake

We only have a very few that store in the water. Being on the hard does give the hull a chance to dry out, but I can't wait until I might actually use the boat year round!

At most, our marina may skim over with ice, which is no problem. A couple of years back, the ice pack got so bad (very unusual), it pulled several pilings and flipped a finger slip or two. It's not just about how your hull makes out, but what you're tied to.
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