How important is fuel capacity? - Page 2 - SailNet Community
 30Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #11 of 51 Old 05-22-2018
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 20,003
Thanks: 82
Thanked 566 Times in 543 Posts
Rep Power: 11
   
Re: How important is fuel capacity?

Quoting actual capacity is like asking how long is a piece of string. This really depends on the fuel consumption of the engine and generator, the likely distance to be covered and whether there is reliable wind or doldrums.

I support the idea of having the ability to motor a percent of a passage, until fuel will be available again. What percent is the skippers call.

Keep in mind that lower RPMs and speed can substantially extend endurance.
Morild likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.

Last edited by Minnewaska; 05-22-2018 at 10:42 AM.
Minnewaska is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 51 Old 05-22-2018
Master Mariner
 
capta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: somewhere south of civilization
Posts: 7,237
Thanks: 138
Thanked 392 Times in 380 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Re: How important is fuel capacity?

Quote:
Originally Posted by celenoglu View Post
For circumnavigation you should be able to motor at least 25% of the distance. It is better to assume 30%.
I also find this statement to be completely odd.
When ocean sailing, far from land, most will wait out the wind if they lose it. Fuel, in most cases on a sailboat, is for near shore situations and docking or entering strange harbors, or their generator.
Please explain why you think someone with a sailboat should need to power 30% of the time, on a circumnavigation.
MarkofSeaLife likes this.

"Any idiot can make a boat go; it takes a sailor to stop one." Spike Africa aboard the schooner Wanderer in Sausalito, Ca. 1964.
“Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats.” ― Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

facebook.com/svskippingstone
capta is offline  
post #13 of 51 Old 05-22-2018
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Moss Landing
Posts: 29
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Re: How important is fuel capacity?

I think the 30% figure quoted was for between points where fuel was obtainable. So instead of 30,000 miles, 3,000 is a more likely figure and 30% of that is just under a thousand miles. We had an 800 liter capacity and were really glad when the forestay parted 500nm from port. Could have gotten by with half that capacity, but the beer would have been very warm that far south. So your 150 gallon requirement is very much in line. As stated above, you can add deck fuel if you feel more comfortable with a big reserve.
Tuna Driver is offline  
 
post #14 of 51 Old 05-22-2018
Moderator
 
MarkofSeaLife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: London!
Posts: 6,419
Thanks: 67
Thanked 297 Times in 269 Posts
Rep Power: 10
 
Dock
Re: How important is fuel capacity?

Quote:
Originally Posted by aeventyr60 View Post
If you happen to cruise in the "land below the wind", then capacity is everything....

And your internal fuel tank capacity is.............................?




.

Sea Life
Notes on a Circumnavigation:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


People can say they want freedom, but offer them the keys to what chains them, a map to where they want to go,
And they'll turn it down for the cell they know
MarkofSeaLife is offline  
post #15 of 51 Old 05-22-2018
Moderator
 
MarkofSeaLife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: London!
Posts: 6,419
Thanks: 67
Thanked 297 Times in 269 Posts
Rep Power: 10
 
Dock
Re: How important is fuel capacity?

BTW, philosophically speaking, I notice one of the repliers in this thread, whose circumnavigating experience was well into the early parts of last century, mentions motoring through the Doldrums (ITCZ et al)

CHEATING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One of the great wonders of the nautical world are the Doldrums. They're steeped with history of sailing adventures since time immemorial.

I have been through a few times and the only way to do it is to sail. The first time through, on someone elses boat we motored and I was devastatingly disappointed!

On my own boat I do what them old buggers had to do.

Quote:
Day after day, day after day,
We stuck, nor breath nor motion;
As idle as a painted ship
Upon a painted ocean.
That is not about the Doldrums but about some bloke who shot an Albatross.


I commend ye to go sailing in the 'proper' way. Its more rewarding.

Sea Life
Notes on a Circumnavigation:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


People can say they want freedom, but offer them the keys to what chains them, a map to where they want to go,
And they'll turn it down for the cell they know
MarkofSeaLife is offline  
post #16 of 51 Old 05-22-2018
Administrator
 
Jeff_H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
Posts: 8,775
Thanks: 36
Thanked 430 Times in 360 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
Re: How important is fuel capacity?

Quote:
Originally Posted by celenoglu View Post
For circumnavigation you should be able to motor at least 25% of the distance. It is better to assume 30%.
I have no idea what the poster possibly could be thinking, but as others have said, this bears no resemblance to a reasonable approximation of reality. But beyond that, much of the answer revolves around the choice of boat and the choice of comfort level, since that impacts fuel consumption. For example, if you are of the 'all the comforts of home' school of thought, I can't think of a sub-50 foot boat that carries enough fuel to run air conditioning for a long passage.

At the opposite end of the spectum, the "go spartan- go now" school of thought, almost no fuel is required, especially when combined with a decently performing boat. An example of that school of thought was conversations that I had with two separate owners of sisterships of my boat.

The one had sailed from Capetown S.A. to the Caribbean. That boat was equipped with a windvane for steering, did not use refrigeration, would switch in the GPS 4-5 times a day and record coordinates. ran a tri-color at night, ran the engine well less than an hour every 3-4 days to recharge the batteries and that was only in cloudy conditions when the solar panel could not keep up, and made the trip on less than 12 gallons of fuel, less than 60 gallons of water, and averaged 150 miles a day for the entire trip. That might not be viewed as a normal passage since the first 10 days was spent broad reaching and running up the coast of Africa in 30-50 knot winds. Once things lightened he angled across the South Atlantic below the Doldrums to the South American Coast where he close reached in the adiabatic winds until north of the Doldrums.

The other couple with a sistership, went non-stop from South Africa to Scotland. They used closer to 25 gallons of fuel but motored part way through the Doldrums. If I remember correctly they carried roughly 40 gallons of fuel (two 13 gallon tanks plus gerry cans on deck). In flat water, these boats will motor at roughly 6 knots at a 1/2 gallon an hour so arguably they had at max a roughly 240 mile range. They had refrigeration that used an engine driven compressor and cold plates so arguably they had less range.

I would not even conjecture what the other end of the spectrum looks like.

Jeff
MarkofSeaLife likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Curmudgeon at Large- and rhinestone in the rough, sailing my Farr 11.6 on the Chesapeake Bay

Last edited by Jeff_H; 05-22-2018 at 01:07 PM.
Jeff_H is online now  
post #17 of 51 Old 05-22-2018
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 20,003
Thanks: 82
Thanked 566 Times in 543 Posts
Rep Power: 11
   
Re: How important is fuel capacity?

The premise of this thread begs a point of clarity. What are the longer distances between fuel availability for the typical circumnavigation. Assuming the outlier long legs could be accommodated by fuel jugs, what is a reasonably long leg. A couple thousand miles? Carrying fuel for 500-600nm doesn't strike me as either unusual, nor excessive.
Jeff_H likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Minnewaska is offline  
post #18 of 51 Old 05-22-2018
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 20,003
Thanks: 82
Thanked 566 Times in 543 Posts
Rep Power: 11
   
Re: How important is fuel capacity?

p.s. We can easily get 500nm out of our fuel and I consider our tankage to be Coastal sized. I would prefer to have much more, to be far offshore. Not necessarily to motor alot, but to run the generator and have the option to motor, if sailing would put us in danger of incoming weather.
Jeff_H likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Minnewaska is offline  
post #19 of 51 Old 05-22-2018
Moderator
 
MarkofSeaLife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: London!
Posts: 6,419
Thanks: 67
Thanked 297 Times in 269 Posts
Rep Power: 10
 
Dock
Re: How important is fuel capacity?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
The premise of this thread begs a point of clarity. What are the longer distances between fuel availability for the typical circumnavigation. Assuming the outlier long legs could be accommodated by fuel jugs, what is a reasonably long leg. A couple thousand miles? Carrying fuel for 500-600nm doesn't strike me as either unusual, nor excessive.
The longest leg of the "normal" tropical downwind cruising circumnavigation is 3,200nms from Galapagos to Marquesas. Its pretty damn difficult to get becalmed on that passage and if you do its going to only be for a day. Mind you Fatty Goodlander just finished that passage and must have been angry at the weather gods... and had a slow passage.

Then theres a number of passages about 2,000 to 2,500 long. But they are all really in the Trade Winds areas.
The Doldrums are only 120 nm to 200nms wide so its not really going to be a difficulty anyway.

As Jeff_H shows in his post, the Atlantic isnt too bad at all if you know where you are going. The Doldrums not very wide. The Azores High is large but you go around that, dial up whatever wind you want, really.

As aeventyr60 said, theres a huge chunk of Asia thats in the Land Above the Wind and you do need to motor a fair bit... but the ranges are short and the fuel is cheap.




A tropical circumnavigation just isn't that difficult. Most people over-stress about the irrelevancies (taking a wood router) instead of the important stuff (good satellite coms to download weather). I think the reason why many over-stress the irrelevancieis is that the planning phase takes years.. Job, boat buying etc, so to keep the dream alive they invent problems so they can solve them at the desk at work... and then scare the crap outta themselves. Then they go home and read Survive!, watch Perfect Storm! and Adrift! and finally roll over and die like the Titanic!

(Never watch a movie or read a book with a ! in the title!

Remember, what you think is important is not. What is important can be picked up along the way.

Its just not that difficult
Jeff_H and Towguy like this.

Sea Life
Notes on a Circumnavigation:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


People can say they want freedom, but offer them the keys to what chains them, a map to where they want to go,
And they'll turn it down for the cell they know
MarkofSeaLife is offline  
post #20 of 51 Old 05-22-2018
Administrator
 
Jeff_H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
Posts: 8,775
Thanks: 36
Thanked 430 Times in 360 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
Re: How important is fuel capacity?

Minne's post is very helpful. Using Mine's boat as an example, which has a comparatively large motoring range of 500 miles, and the roughly 6,000 mile passage from Capetown to Barbados or Trinidad that I mentioned above, that represents a range that is roughly 8-9% of the passage length. I suppose that it is probably possible to do a circumnavigation where the longest passages are something like 3,000 miles, which starts to get Minne's motoring range up to around 17 percent of the longest passage.

(Edit: Mark's post crossed with mine, but also sheds a lot of light on the point I was trying to raise)

Jeff


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Curmudgeon at Large- and rhinestone in the rough, sailing my Farr 11.6 on the Chesapeake Bay

Last edited by Jeff_H; 05-22-2018 at 01:51 PM.
Jeff_H is online now  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Adding Fuel Capacity dhhowes Pacific Seacraft 6 05-14-2015 09:15 PM
Fuel capacity options? smurphny Alberg 1 02-12-2015 11:46 PM
Capacity CocoPutot Pearson 2 10-30-2010 10:46 PM
C27 Fuel Tank Capacity and the 1514 HPG Consumption NewsReader Mass Bay Sailors 0 02-12-2007 12:15 AM
Increased Fuel Capacity John_colpitts Boat Review and Purchase Forum 3 02-08-2006 05:13 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome