Liveaboards: What do you miss?. - Page 4 - SailNet Community
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post #31 of 62 Old 4 Weeks Ago
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Re: Liveaboards: What do you miss?.

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Originally Posted by paulinnanaimo View Post
Mike
You have raised the 'footprint' issue in many threads in the past; and while I don't disagree per se it does raise a question that I have trouble answering. To me, sustainable living is a lifestyle that is good for the planet if everybody did it. If everybody lived on 30 or 40 foot fibreglass boats would it be a good thing? I don't know but I do have my doubts.
The point you raise is a good one, but there is another aspect to the issue of sustainability. Consider the same argument applied to energy resources. Is an energy resource only sustainable if everyone can power their lives from it? The answer is clearly no. If we are to replace our current carbon based economy with one based on renewable energy resources we will have to rely on a wide variety of sources including wind, solar, geothermal, tidal, biofuels etc. There is no one size fits all approach to living with a low carbon footprint. Just because one low carbon lifestyle won't work for everyone doesn't mean that it isn't worth doing. Like Mike, I often stress how low my carbon footprint has become from living aboard. I think that showing people that living a low carbon lifestyle can be enjoyable if you can find a way that works for you can get people thinking about what low carbon lifestyle they might be happy to live with.
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Re: Liveaboards: What do you miss?.

Long, long hot showers with body sprays.

Fly fishing walking up a,steam.

Driving the car or cruising on the bike.

Watching baseball or football in the stadium.

Not being the minority person everywhere I go.

Striper fishing off the beach.

Snow falling.

Autumn.

Being close to my kids

A round of golf without Bermuda grass.

Not constantly fixing things.

s/v Hippocampus
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post #33 of 62 Old 4 Weeks Ago
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Re: Liveaboards: What do you miss?.

This low footprint thing should realize itís not as low as one may think.
I have a new house. HVAC is geothermal. Electric is solar. I currently currently cruise the only new boat I ever had. Electricity is solar and wind. My town has multiple wind turbines.
Wind moves air from up high and brings it down and does the reverse. It causes the downwind land to be hotter. Solar requires extensive mining. Boats are Glass Reinforced PLASTIC and therefore a petroleum product as is my dinghy, sails and running rigging. Even todayís ďwooden ď boats are held together with petroleum products and painted with the same.
My friends boats were baked at a huge expenditure of energy. And of course huge energy is required to mine, smelt and weld a metal boat. Now with super efficient motor boats like the artnautica motor boats need not be worse than us rag baggers.
Sure Iím not live on a wedding cake mega yacht but I donít think Iím that pure.
Impact will come from reinventing the grid and transportation. I did what I did because it improves my quality of life. Not due to carbon footprint. Living without the noise, stink, and frequent maintenance of piston engines is just harmonious and nice. Not paying utilities is a blessing as is not being dependent on the grid. Thatís reason enough. Especially now when when averaged over the years itís not an additional expense.
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Re: Liveaboards: What do you miss?.

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Originally Posted by outbound View Post
This low footprint thing should realize itís not as low as one may think.
I have a new house. HVAC is geothermal. Electric is solar. I currently currently cruise the only new boat I ever had. Electricity is solar and wind. My town has multiple wind turbines.
Wind moves air from up high and brings it down and does the reverse. It causes the downwind land to be hotter. Solar requires extensive mining. Boats are Glass Reinforced PLASTIC and therefore a petroleum product as is my dinghy, sails and running rigging. Even todayís ďwooden ď boats are held together with petroleum products and painted with the same.
My friends boats were baked at a huge expenditure of energy. And of course huge energy is required to mine, smelt and weld a metal boat. Now with super efficient motor boats like the artnautica motor boats need not be worse than us rag baggers.
Sure Iím not live on a wedding cake mega yacht but I donít think Iím that pure.
Impact will come from reinventing the grid and transportation. I did what I did because it improves my quality of life. Not due to carbon footprint. Living without the noise, stink, and frequent maintenance of piston engines is just harmonious and nice. Not paying utilities is a blessing as is not being dependent on the grid. Thatís reason enough. Especially now when when averaged over the years itís not an additional expense.
I have had a small army of students doing life cycle analyses of a wide variety of emerging energy technologies for the last 15 years, so I do understand both the environmental and social impacts of these technologies. Neodymium mining for wind turbine magnets has caused significant pollution and health issues in the area around Bautou China. Mining for Cobalt for Lithium Ion Batteries in the Kolowezi region of Congo has caused birth defects and heavy metal poisoning for the local population, building the Ivanpah Concentrated Solar Plant near Las Vegas damaged environment for endangered desert tortoises, the Lightning Dock Geothermal plant in the Animas Valley of New Mexico is putting the local groundwater supply at risk. It should come as no surprise that there is no such thing as a free lunch or a clean energy technology. The oil industry has done its share of damage to the environment too. Go ask the residents of the Niger Delta who can't feed their families because oil spills have killed off all the fish. There are coal miners around the world suffering from silicosis and ground water that has been contaminated by fracking fluid from oil and natural gas drilling.

A very clear eyed cost benefit analysis is needed to balance the environmental costs of these new energy technologies against the significant impact of fossil fuel production and use and the anthropomorphic climate change and ocean acidification from the resulting CO2 emissions. If you spend some time with the IPCC reports published over the past few years, it becomes fairly clear that while there are significant environmental and social costs to moving away from a carbon based economy, the benefits of reducing the damage caused by continuing to use fossil fuels far outweigh these costs. Sea level rise causing some countries to go under water and increasing salt water intrusion to coastal fresh water aquifers and increased sstorm damage to coastal infrastructure and the costs of coastal hardening, Ocean acidification leading to bleaching of coral reefs that are a major nursery of fish life and reduction of marine biodiversity. The increased costs of dealing with changes in rainfall patterns that result in more intense downpours causing flooding, erosion and a reduced ability to refill depleted aquifers because of rapid runoff. More frequent droughts and more intense droughts resulting in forest fires, forests that are more susceptible to insect attacks, agricultural losses, depletion of fossil groundwater resources. Loss of biodiversity due to changing climactic zones and pressure on niche species to move to higher altitude faster than they can manage. Spread of insect borne diseases to regions where it is no longer cold enough to kill off the vectors in the wintertime. The list goes on and on and the worst part is that the people who are least responsible for causing these problems are the ones who are the most likely to be harmed by them. There is a false equivalence between the real environmental and social impacts of emerging energy technologies and the damage that producing, let alone using fossil fuels causes. Consider the example you gave of wind turbines mixing air between different levels as a type of thermal pollution. Every power plant around the world that uses thermoelectric generation creates several orders of magnitude more thermal pollution than a wind farm of comparable output. Remember the Fukushima Nuclear power plants that were flooded in the tsunami that hit Japan a few years back? The reason why they were vulnerable is because all thermoelectric power plants need to be built next to sources of cooling water such as the ocean, so they can condense the steam produced by burning coal, burning oil, burning natural gas, nuclear fission, concentrating solar power, etc.. That massive amount of heat is then dumped back into the cooling water source. So yes, footprint is important.

Perhaps if I have time later, I will address the other false equivalence here, between the environmental impact of building and living in a house from scratch as opposed to building and living on boat, but I have ranted enough for one post!
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Re: Liveaboards: What do you miss?.

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Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
A dishwasher and a hot [member of the opposite binary] to push the button.
I actually have both aboard.

I never use the dishwasher, ever. The juice is just not worth the squeeze. I donít even flush out the winter anti-freeze anymore. That space is going to be repurposed into galley storage, when I feel like doing the carpentry.

As for the hot button pusher, I use her all the time.


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Re: Liveaboards: What do you miss?.

Tossed lines yesterday and sailed off into 15 gusting 25. Before getting out of the Bay, it was gusting into the upper 30s and the Coast Guard announces a Securite to expect 40-50. We turn back to stay the night in the Bay. Dinghy ashore and have a great time! Best night sleep in a long time. Awake to a New England chilly spring morning and a hot pot of coffee.

Absolutely nothing I can think of that I miss at the moment.


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Re: Liveaboards: What do you miss?.

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Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
A dishwasher and a hot [member of the opposite binary] to push the button.
I like to think my wife has all of that since I'm the one usually doing the dishes. Maybe I'm dreamin'.
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Re: For all you LIVEABOARD folks....

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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
Pizza Pi boat, anchored in Christmas Cove on Little St James Island, USVI. Delivery is free, in the anchorage, if you order three pies! Although, taking one's own dinghy over to see the operation is a must. Freaking expensive, tho.
Somehow, I doubt they'll deliver some 380 nautical miles, and it would take a lot more than pizza delivery to get me back to the hell hole that is the VI.
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Re: For all you LIVEABOARD folks....

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Somehow, I doubt they'll deliver some 380 nautical miles, and it would take a lot more than pizza delivery to get me back to the hell hole that is the VI.
. VI Hell hole oh please do tell .... elaborate...

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Re: Liveaboards: What do you miss?.

C good post. Thereís no doubt the new technologies arenít without their faults and some very negative effects. However, they do represent a favorable evolution in our thinking about energy. I think they have evolved to the point that carbon footprint is only one of the reasons to embrace them and hope they will continue to evolve.
You commented about the my first new boat and my building a new house for the first time .
Please note I fully expect my boat to be crossing oceans long after Iím worm poop. Similarly we intentionally specíd the house to remain functional, aesthetically pleasing and low maintenance when my great grandchildren occupy it. Thereís a marginal increase in expense to build with low maintenance and great durability in mind. The spec houses of prior recent decades are an example of how to make money for builders and developers but misserve the public as the recent storms in Texas and the south east demonstrate.
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