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post #11 of 137 Old 09-18-2019
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Re: Cruising vs. Passages

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Mike, I believe you are fully qualified to answer my original question, and I appreciate your input. I guess it's all a matter of perspective. My personal definition of a "passage" at this point in my sailing career is to take my little Catalina 22 to the far end of the lake and camping out for the weekend. Not exactly pushing the limits of cruising, but I do try and unplug from the dock life by hitting my nav marks, making my meals, filtering water, and utilizing my solar system (Read baby-steps).
Sounds like a good way to start … or to spend a lifetime. Who knows .

I stumbled into sailing and cruising mostly by accident. I’d never sailed much as a kid, outside of the occasional sail I would hoist on my canoe trips. I began remote wilderness canoe tripping when I was quite young, and then discovered sea kayaking in my late late 30s. A few years after that a friend bought a O’day 22, and the rest as they say, is history.

I spent a lot of great time sailing that little 22. At the time I thought it was a huge boat. Then came a 26-footer, then a 34, and now my 37-footer. I think I’ve found my final boat, but one never really knows what the future will bring. I do know I can cruise just about anywhere with this boat. In fact, she’s already gone around the world with a previous owner.

Personally, I have no plans to circumnavigate, but I don’t rule it out. I don’t really have any specific cruising plans or goals. To me, cruising is about the lifestyle, and I know I can find wonder and beauty just about everywhere, so I don’t have to go anywhere in particular.

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post #12 of 137 Old 09-18-2019
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Re: Cruising vs. Passages

Have been doing two passages per year. One from New England to eastern Caribbean and one back. Insurance predicates your behavior. Insurance now requires me to have three aboard for passage. Insurance in the “zone” is an obscene amount. Most insurance includes Grenada and some Trinidad as being in the “zone “. Insurance is hard to find as so many companies either folded or left this field. Last year for the first time left the boat in Grenada. It was actually cheaper than yard cost in New England. Next year don’t know what I’m going to do.

The Outbound is hands down the very best passage boat I’ve ever owned and the best mom and pop for long term cruising. Although a 14 year old design would build another one if starting out. Don’t think any of the current offerings match it for our sailing program.
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post #13 of 137 Old 09-18-2019
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Re: Cruising vs. Passages

May sound snippy, so apologies now, but words do matter in order for you to get the best input. Many people accept the Ocean Cruising Club definition of a passage. Roughly speaking a passage is an uninterrupted transit across the ocean of 1500 nautical miles or greater with land in sight only at upon leaving or final landfall. Believe this definition is used as it implies weather forecasts are only reliable for the first 5 days after leaving. That you are entirely dependent on what preparations you’ve done before leaving. That you must complete the passage in the absence of a break in the passage so therefore without outside assistance beyond that received via communications. It’s that sense of total self reliance and independence that makes passagmaking so magical. As they say” a man who has gone to sea is ruined for land”.
Strongly encourage you to do it before you make any decisions about which boat to buy. If you get hooked you’re done. Your boat decisions become entirely different if you want to do passages. Some have this dream of passagemaking only to find out they hate it. Huge sums, incredible hours spent only to end up dissatisfied. Every passage is markly different. Some a great PIA and struggle. Others immensely satisfying. Do at least a few before deciding.

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post #14 of 137 Old 09-18-2019
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Re: Cruising vs. Passages

I suppose if you happen to be a member of that yacht club their definition might be authoritative, but for the rest of us I think the definition is much less prescriptive.

For example, the Royal Yachting Association, who many folks also recognise as an authority define a passage as "A passage is a non stop voyage from a departure port/safe haven to a destination port/safe haven". Note, no minimum distance is required. Any uninterupted berth to berth voyage is a passage.

Passage is also used in the collision regulations as well as numerous nautical texts without having any minimum distance attributed to it.
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post #15 of 137 Old 09-18-2019
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Re: Cruising vs. Passages

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I suppose if you happen to be a member of that yacht club their definition might be authoritative, but for the rest of us I think the definition is much less prescriptive.

For example, the Royal Yachting Association, who many folks also recognise as an authority define a passage as "A passage is a non stop voyage from a departure port/safe haven to a destination port/safe haven". Note, no minimum distance is required. Any uninterupted berth to berth voyage is a passage.

Passage is also used in the collision regulations as well as numerous nautical texts without having any minimum distance attributed to it.
I'm afraid I'd have to agree with Arcb on this one. It may only be around 900 some odd miles from Bermuda to ST. T., but it sure feels like a passage, in the traditional sense, to me. The same with the trip to Bermuda from anywhere in the US, especially if the Gulfstream is treating you to a bit of it's more unpleasant conditions.
I don't think we can put an exact definition of the word passage in this context, unless we qualify the word with some sort of description such as ocean, coastal or overnight.
How could anyone sail from Newport to the Caribbean and not consider that an ocean passage, whether you stop in Bermuda or not? It's roughly 14 days out of the sight of land, a situation where the crew must be self sufficient and hopefully competent and experienced enough not to require the aide of a rescue service.
I'm sorry, but the Ocean Cruising Club definition of a passage sounds like a bunch of stuck up old sailors who need to feel they have done something extra special by putting their own definition to the word passage.

"Any idiot can make a boat go; it takes a sailor to stop one." Spike Africa aboard the schooner Wanderer in Sausalito, Ca. 1964.
“Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats.” ― Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows

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post #16 of 137 Old 09-18-2019
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Re: Cruising vs. Passages

capta

Why are you afraid to agree with Arcb?
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post #17 of 137 Old 09-18-2019
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Re: Cruising vs. Passages

I think I’ll go with Webster on this one: “a specific act of traveling or passing especially by sea or air.” Clubs can impose their own definition as befits their members. Doesn’t really matter to the rest of us.
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Re: Cruising vs. Passages

I found a definition from a good source. Bowditch: The American Practical Navigator. Very likely the leading text on how to navigate in North America, probably one of the top navigation texts in the world.

1) A navigable channel, especially one through reefs or islands. Also called a PASS.

2) A transit from one place to another, one leg of a voyage.

https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/The...ical_Navigator
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post #19 of 137 Old 09-18-2019
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Re: Cruising vs. Passages

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Originally Posted by GLausin View Post

My question to the forum is how often do you do passages to get to different cruising grounds? And what influences your decision to do a passage? Did the length and type of sailboat you purchased affect that decision? Was the length and type of sailboat you purchased based on the idea that at some point you will do passages or not?
My passages this season have all been three nautical miles between two harbors and that is enough for me these days. I've done many extended cruises in my younger days and just do not see the need to repeat those trips. My boat is a 30 foot catboat that is considered to be a good coastal cruiser. A number have crossed the Atlantic and others have participated in the Marion Bermuda race. Others have traveled to the Caribbean and back. I've taken the boat from Long Island to Canada. Where I sailed across Lake Ontario into the Thousand Islands area and back. Plus all over the northeast up to Boston, Nantucket, Newport etc... I did have plans to take the boat south in winters but, they have faded with age and the fact that my gal likes to do Catamaran charters in winter. There were some spots I still wanted to visit by boat and I have been able to do that by arranging a charter for myself. Long ocean passages no longer interest me. A sail to a nearby port that I can plan in the drop of a hat is most enjoyable and comfortable for me these days. I'll rent a mooring for a few days and dine ashore or cook on board as is my wish. I plan to get there before the crowds and enjoy the watching the couples as they pick up the moorings around me. It's fun to observe those who have the communication skills to pick up the moorings without a word being spoken and those who need to yell and make several attempts. When the tide and weather window is right I make plans to head back. Because the distances are not long I don't get fatigued or bored and enjoy the trip in each direction.

Mike
Currently: Heading to warm waters over the winter on a variety of boats.

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post #20 of 137 Old 09-18-2019
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Re: Cruising vs. Passages

"Passages" are what you do to get to the "cruising" area you want to be in. No matter how long the passage is, the boat of course was considered where purchasing. The real question is the level of fear that went into that choice consideration.
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