Production Boats and the Limits - Page 296 - SailNet Community
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post #2951 of 5353 Old 10-30-2015
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Re: Production Boats and the Limits

This thread could be even more entertaining if all posts were in limerick or haiku form .
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post #2952 of 5353 Old 10-30-2015
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Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Way too much effort and sophistication.

Besides, I much prefer the Hurling Abuse at Absurd Statements format.
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I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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post #2953 of 5353 Old 10-30-2015
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Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Right on Jon. I've been wrestling with the VPP program print out format ( should be the easiest part!) for the last two hours and I am not in the mood for sophistication.
I had better go chop some firewood. I may have to start drinking again!

BTW: My VPP print out looks magnificent! I beat the process into submission.

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Last edited by bobperry; 10-30-2015 at 09:11 PM.
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post #2954 of 5353 Old 10-30-2015
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Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by slap View Post
How about the Beneteau Oceanus 500 from 1988? Its PHRF is 75, and has a draft of 1.8m.
Well, that is a well designed sailboat for that era but I don't think so. The SA/D of the Sense 50 is 19.38 the one of the Oceanis 500 is 18.27. besides that it would be more fair to compare an old Oceanis with a new Oceanis. Oceanis series are faster than Sense series.

Anyway the PHRF can be very different between two sailboats depending not only on the draft of the keel but also on the sails.

I asked from where come that 90 PHRF for the Sense 50 but I did not had a reply. Maybe from the same place you get that 75 for the 1988 Oceanis 500? That seems a bit low for that boat. Can you post a link to have a look?





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Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Paulo you crack me up with your nonsense about the Sense,

BTW my 14y.o. design also has a PHRF of 90. It's design brief was to be a bullet proof CRUISER capable of crossing oceans . Racing was not in the brief.
...
You mean that on the Sense brief had racing in mind? You can only be kidding. The Oceanis line, that also has nothing to do with racing is faster.

Anyway Shockwave posted that information about the Sense 50 having a PHRF of 90 I asked him to post a link to see about what he was talking about and eventually the boat configuration and till now nothing.... except this enigmatic post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shockwave View Post
Wrong Baltic Paolo, that one rates negative.
Admit it, the Sense 50 is a slow, glass covered, pizza boat. The rating of the Sense 50 is closer to Bob's Valent 40. ?
But it's new...????
How hard is to post that link shockwave?





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Re: Production Boats and the Limits

PHRF New England - Handicapping - Base Handicaps

Here's the NE one. Google works wonders, you know.

Ocean- that which covers 3/4 of a world made for man, who has no gills.
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post #2957 of 5353 Old 10-30-2015
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Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by seaner97 View Post
PHRF New England - Handicapping - Base Handicaps

Here's the NE one. Google works wonders, you know.
Yes I had saw that but the one that is mistakenly named Beneteau Sense 40 (that I think it is the 50 since there is no Sense 40) has a lower PHRF, 84, not 90 and it is the swallow draft version and that means that the standard version will have a considerable lower PHRF that in some cases can go below 10 points or more.

Regarding the Outbound 44/46 the more frequent PHRF is 90/93

The PHRF of the same model can be very different on different keel and sail configurations. For instance regarding the Oceanis 500 we can find them with a PHRF of 60, 75, 84 and 81. Regarding modern Oceanis I can find several smaller 48 Shallow Drafts with PHRF between 72 and 87 (more 72), and a Oceanis 54 with a PHRF of 45. Anyway Slap is right regarding the old Oceanis 500 to be a very fast sailboat for 1988. Cheers to Philippe Briand for a great design.

But anyway when I was thinking about old designs even if some were made not many years ago like for instance the Vaillant 50 that has a PHRF between 102 and 105.

Regarding Philippe Briand the only Beneteaus he had designed recently are the big ones from the Beneteau Luxury brand CNB, some of the bigger Jeanneau and a lot of luxury maxi yachts.

Beautiful maxi yachts that deserve to be seen. Look at this:








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Last edited by PCP; 10-30-2015 at 11:27 PM.
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Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Well, that is a well designed sailboat for that era but I don't think so. The SA/D of the Sense 50 is 19.38 the one of the Oceanis 500 is 18.27. besides that it would be more fair to compare an old Oceanis with a new Oceanis. Oceanis series are faster than Sense series.

Anyway the PHRF can be very different between two sailboats depending not only on the draft of the keel but also on the sails.

I asked from where come that 90 PHRF for the Sense 50 but I did not had a reply. Maybe from the same place you get that 75 for the 1988 Oceanis 500? That seems a bit low for that boat. Can you post a link to have a look?
I got my numbers from here:

http://www.ussailing.org/wp-content/...aps%20Data.pdf

And SA/D is only part of the picture - as an example, the Sense probably has a fair bit more wetted surface than the Oceanus 500.
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Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Blah, blah, blah, I really do not understand the point at all.

"Anyway the PHRF can be very different between two sailboats depending not only on the draft of the keel but also on the sails."

Really? Is that how it works? That is really simple. I thought it was a little more complex than that. But what would I know? I have only been working with PHRF for over 40 years. I have even been on PHRF committees.

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Re: Production Boats and the Limits

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Len View Post
This thread could be even more entertaining if all posts were in limerick or haiku form .
Pizza slice boats like to speed,
for comfort you'd better take heed.
They throw you about
till your insides are out
Their design is based mainly on greed.

Old boats are designed for the sea
But that doesn't matter to me.
I'd rather have new,
and cutting edge too,
so avoiding all storms is my plea.

Whatever I like is the best.
Who cares about all of the rest.
I'll always do fine
at least in MY mind
as long as I flee the sea test.
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