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Tips From the Pros

This is an experiment. Sailing part of a passage from St. Maarten to Rhode Island, with a very experienced delivery captain, on a Swan 48 to pick up some sailboat handling pointers. The crew on this passage are experienced sailors who are now getting offshore experience. Please let me know if the is worth while. Thanks.
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Re: Tips From the Pros

Good vid.
Its for sailors....so you may not get..bikini hits.
Keep on posting. You have real stuff
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Re: Tips From the Pros

Good vid


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Re: Tips From the Pros

Interesting discussion of the foot of the reefed mainsail

A Dutchman has none of the issues he mentions... as the sail stacks itself on the boom... better yet if it is not loose footed. Almost all the force on the sail would be on the luff (in the sail track) or the leech where the aft reef line is attached to the boom.

When I set a reef the aft line is much lower down and the foot doesn't contain a loose of sloppy stack of flakes. The grommets are there to keep the sail compact with less windage.... not sure about them being to weak for that job.

He should have shown how the reefed main is set... not only how it looks when set.

I like his comment about when and where to raise and douse the main. Harbor may be a bit crowded, but it certainly less rolly... and it's safer to work on a stable platform. This may mean, as in the case of Port Jef, for example, to carry sail in and out of the fairly narrow entry channel.

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Re: Tips From the Pros

Have done this trip back and forth with the seasons since 2013. We have a Dutchman. Kind of a PIA to set the tensions on the fishing line just right (ours are attached to the topping lift). Pretty much precludes the use of a trysail so we have a deep third reef. Requires some attention to retighten the topping lift before messing with reefs or hoists.
That said allows one crew to hoist, reef or drop the main by himself from the comfort and safety of the cockpit. This can be done without needing to turn the engine on and heading into the wind. As long as you have wind before the mast and have let out the main enough you’re good to go.
Wife doesn’t like it because it’s a pain to put on (take off) the mains cover. There’s a slit for each fishing line which means a lot of fasteners. So for when you’re not putting on/taking off the cover everyday it’s a joy.
Found some tricks with the main and Dutchman set up.
We have single line reefing for the first two reefs and double for the third. The single line is a PIA. However if you tighten the topping lift enough that the aft end of the boom rises, slowly drop your main while taking up the reef line slack you get a good shape to the main. Nice and tight and flat. Given the Dutchman keeps the main totally under control this gives you no stress time to see the clew tightens first and then the tack.
Down is usually a 8-12 day trip. Back is a bit shorter and usually easier. I haven’t done this trip without crew. Still it’s nice to be able to handle the boat yourself. The Dutchman makes this easier to do. Would note until I have full confidence in my crew I’m on deck for changes in sail plan.

s/v Hippocampus
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Last edited by outbound; 3 Weeks Ago at 08:19 AM.
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Re: Tips From the Pros

Quote:
Originally Posted by SanderO View Post
Interesting discussion of the foot of the reefed mainsail

A Dutchman has none of the issues he mentions... as the sail stacks itself on the boom... better yet if it is not loose footed. Almost all the force on the sail would be on the luff (in the sail track) or the leech where the aft reef line is attached to the boom.

When I set a reef the aft line is much lower down and the foot doesn't contain a loose of sloppy stack of flakes. The grommets are there to keep the sail compact with less windage.... not sure about them being to weak for that job.

He should have shown how the reefed main is set... not only how it looks when set.

I like his comment about when and where to raise and douse the main. Harbor may be a bit crowded, but it certainly less rolly... and it's safer to work on a stable platform. This may mean, as in the case of Port Jef, for example, to carry sail in and out of the fairly narrow entry channel.

Just for the sake of another perspective. A few years ago when we replaced Haleakulas main I had the discussion with Quantum where I bought it on the loose footed vs bolt rope in the boom track.

As a traditionalist I argued for the boom track. Eventually I gave into the reasoning for better shaping And tweaking downwind of s loose foot. They were right. I beleive since the advent of in mast mains and in my case also that many of us have loose footed mains. Therefore we are used to some material when reefing needed to be made neat at the foot of the sail.

Dutchman are good systems. Again for my personal preference I didn’t want holes in my sail. To me it has to wreaking the sail. When the fishing line breaks...also it’s a mess.

Our practice has always been to enter narrow harbors/ inlets like Port Jeff/ Barnegat with the main up for emergency purposes. In case the engine failed I’d have a way for moving the boat forward quickly. So we usually motorsail in. This last trip I lost an alternator belt minutes after clearing the fairway at Barnegat, no worries with the main already up.

Good advice though about dousing in a non rolling area. Haleakula has ez jacks which can be set from the cockpit. Also a tides track on the main. Droping the main is a 30 second process after you turn into the wind.


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Re: Tips From the Pros

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
Just for the sake of another perspective. A few years ago when we replaced Haleakulas main I had the discussion with Quantum where I bought it on the loose footed vs bolt rope in the boom track.

As a traditionalist I argued for the boom track. Eventually I gave into the reasoning for better shaping And tweaking downwind of s loose foot. They were right. I beleive since the advent of in mast mains and in my case also that many of us have loose footed mains. Therefore we are used to some material when reefing needed to be made neat at the foot of the sail.

Dutchman are good systems. Again for my personal preference I didn’t want holes in my sail. To me it has to wreaking the sail. When the fishing line breaks...also it’s a mess.

Our practice has always been to enter narrow harbors/ inlets like Port Jeff/ Barnegat with the main up for emergency purposes. In case the engine failed I’d have a way for moving the boat forward quickly. So we usually motorsail in. This last trip I lost an alternator belt minutes after clearing the fairway at Barnegat, no worries with the main already up.

Good advice though about dousing in a non rolling area. Haleakula has ez jacks which can be set from the cockpit. Also a tides track on the main. Droping the main is a 30 second process after you turn into the wind.
The nylon lines of the Dutchman seem to be bothersome. I don't think they weaken the sail. I had one of the first systems installed on Shiva and tested in in the Marion Bermuda race of 91 and that one was a doozie. The system is fabulous the easily dousing and self flaking the main. I find lazy jacks more annoying and ugly and difficult. Different strokes.

I usually have motor on when entering and leaving a harbor or an anchorage. I do so for a number of reasons...all pretty obvious except I am cooling the frig and dumping amps into the batts. I am actually less concerned about and engine fail then a big gust or wind shift as I am usually under AP and the AP is not as responsive as a person at the helm. I can helm the boat in and out and engage the AP when needed and it is to drop the main inside. I have this down pretty well. My friend was uncomfortable and wanted to be at the helm. My helm is not steering to a waypoint but just a "powered" helm I turn to the heading I want. I can AP steer thru a mooring sail right to the mooring if need be. I usually hand steer in these conditions.

I have no problem with a bolt rope and find the sail shape is fine... but have never had a loose footed main to compare. I prefer full battens so no in mast furling for me.
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Re: Tips From the Pros

One thing I found surprising is he’s hand steering. Personally like someone at the wheel when reefing although frequently do it on the AP or even the Hydrovane. Still I want to make miles and have found especially on passage the AP or vane gives a better sog. People talk or otherwise lose attention. The mechanical devices don’t.

s/v Hippocampus
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Re: Tips From the Pros

Quote:
Originally Posted by SanderO View Post
The nylon lines of the Dutchman seem to be bothersome. I don't think they weaken the sail. I had one of the first systems installed on Shiva and tested in in the Marion Bermuda race of 91 and that one was a doozie. The system is fabulous the easily dousing and self flaking the main. I find lazy jacks more annoying and ugly and difficult. Different strokes.

I usually have motor on when entering and leaving a harbor or an anchorage. I do so for a number of reasons...all pretty obvious except I am cooling the frig and dumping amps into the batts. I am actually less concerned about and engine fail then a big gust or wind shift as I am usually under AP and the AP is not as responsive as a person at the helm. I can helm the boat in and out and engage the AP when needed and it is to drop the main inside. I have this down pretty well. My friend was uncomfortable and wanted to be at the helm. My helm is not steering to a waypoint but just a "powered" helm I turn to the heading I want. I can AP steer thru a mooring sail right to the mooring if need be. I usually hand steer in these conditions.

I have no problem with a bolt rope and find the sail shape is fine... but have never had a loose footed main to compare. I prefer full battens so no in mast furling for me.
My friend we have ez jacks not lazy jacks. They can be deployed from the cockpit.
30 seconds. Flake our full battened main perfectly. No holes in the sail. Much cheaper.

We motor in with the main up.We also motor out with the main up. Usually our main goes up right away when we pull away from the dock,
The ez jacks work great for single handing

I like the Dutchman system. Just presenting a cheaper alternative and retrofit than poking holes in the sail. No question when reefing the Dutchman sail looks prettier and you don’t have to tie up loose sail at the foot.

Advantage of EZ jacks to Lazy Jacks is deployment from cockpit and when not deployed they lay on the mast. Not in the way of raising the sail and the full battens
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Re: Tips From the Pros

Quote:
Originally Posted by SanderO View Post
The nylon lines of the Dutchman seem to be bothersome. I don't think they weaken the sail. I had one of the first systems installed on Shiva and tested in in the Marion Bermuda race of 91 and that one was a doozie. The system is fabulous the easily dousing and self flaking the main. I find lazy jacks more annoying and ugly and difficult. Different strokes.

I usually have motor on when entering and leaving a harbor or an anchorage. I do so for a number of reasons...all pretty obvious except I am cooling the frig and dumping amps into the batts. I am actually less concerned about and engine fail then a big gust or wind shift as I am usually under AP and the AP is not as responsive as a person at the helm. I can helm the boat in and out and engage the AP when needed and it is to drop the main inside. I have this down pretty well. My friend was uncomfortable and wanted to be at the helm. My helm is not steering to a waypoint but just a "powered" helm I turn to the heading I want. I can AP steer thru a mooring sail right to the mooring if need be. I usually hand steer in these conditions.

I have no problem with a bolt rope and find the sail shape is fine... but have never had a loose footed main to compare. I prefer full battens so no in mast furling for me.
Have no experience with them. Seems like a large roach full batten main might snag/ hang up on them... Same for lazy jacks... Dutchmen never snags. Broken mono filament is not a difficult or expensive fix. My experience with Dutchmen is that it is a very effective, efficient, but spendy system. You don't really see it and it's less visually intrusive than jack systems. Holes in the sail drives some people crazy. I get that. It gets used ever time we sail so the cost is amortized. Our main is 440SF... 14' boom... sail is quite heavy. Friction can be a problem.. but not from the control lines.

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