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post #31 of 212 Old 07-13-2019
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Re: Why American do not crossing oceans?

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Originally Posted by gulfsail View Post
...So what we are really talking about are middle class and wealthier folks to begin with. Are you suggesting that they aren't cruising because they don't have the funds to do so? Again: Prove it. Because frankly, you're going WAY down the rabbit hole with respect to your assumptions.
Iím saying there are far fewer middle class people who can afford the luxury of going cruising. The FACT that the middle class has shrunk is well supported in even the most basic economic data that is readily available. These are not assumptions, these are facts.

Now, I am postulating that this is the key difference which could explain the OPís observation (which I still would like to see more evidence of). Stating Americans are more tied to their gadgets, or more desirous of comfort, is an unsupported assumption, and really makes no sense.
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post #32 of 212 Old 07-13-2019
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Re: Why American do not crossing oceans?

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Yeah, I say that some of your assumptions may not be correct.

As for vehicle leases, most American individuals buy, unless it's for a business. (Also, the leases in the U.S. are quite different in the U.S., but that's a whole different discussion.)

Europeans pay quadruple what Americans pay for gas, and it definitely affects their transportation choices. Also the fact that they have a choice with pretty good and comprehensive public transport plays into it.

Housing is a bit more complicated. You can only live in your family's home if you stay in the same location, and Americans have been a lot more mobile for generations. Freedom of movement has been really high, and employment has been plentiful. (Mobility has been increasing slowly within the European Union. )

As for your charter, it probably depends on where it is, the type of boat, and also where and how you advertise. I have a friend who charters his boat in Greece, but his clients are mostly American. Because that's who he advertises to, and a lot of it is word of mouth. But I don't think you can accurately assess the U.S. economy based on your charter clients. As an example, when I travel in Europe, the guests at a hotel will likely reflect where that hotel directs it's advertising. I've often stayed at hotels where the guests were consistently of a particular nationality, as I don't always use exclusively U.S.-based search engines.

The American economy has been going gangbusters for a few years now, and exchange rates are better than they were a decade ago. So if it were economics, I'd think there would be a lot more Americans hitting the cruising circuit, but I'm not getting the impression that's the case.
We do actually get internet in the West Indies and I have read nothing on it that substantiates your statements, however, if you'd like to post some links I'd be glad to read them. I must say I am very happy that I wasn't an American airline pilot, steelworker or vehicle assembly worker.
I only post from my personal experience, which is indeed limited in this area. From that experience the vast majority of Americans I know who have late-model luxury cars lease, whereas I know no Europeans who lease, and in multiple days of sailing together the topics of housing and vehicles do come up frequently.
We have yet to advertise anywhere in Europe, and, if you reread my post, I said inquiries, not customers. Most are now coming through TripAdvisor. If Americans aren't smart enough to use that, then that's a whole other discussion.
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post #33 of 212 Old 07-13-2019
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Re: Why American do not crossing oceans?

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Iím saying there are far fewer middle class people who can afford the luxury of going cruising. The FACT that the middle class has shrunk is well supported in even the most basic economic data that is readily available. These are not assumptions, these are facts.

Now, I am postulating that this is the key difference which could explain the OPís observation (which I still would like to see more evidence of). Stating Americans are more tied to their gadgets, or more desirous of comfort, is an unsupported assumption, and really makes no sense.
What are you suggesting exactly? That people can't afford boats? This is not the case. The marinas are bulging with them. That people can't afford a cruising lifestyle? Again, not the case. It's no more expensive to live on a boat than live in a house. In some ways, it can be even less expensive. What exactly are you suggesting, then?

I spoke about social media, not gadgets. And while it applies a bit more to Americans, it is actually a world phenomenon. I'm postulating a possible explanation, I'm not attempting to prove it. The proof is left to you. If you'd like to pretend that it's all about income equality and the minimum wage, well, I'm suggesting that you're the one making bad assumptions.
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post #34 of 212 Old 07-13-2019
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Re: Why American do not crossing oceans?

Here's my story. Been sailing over 40 years. Retired and well off financially. I have ZERO interest in cruising full-time. I love the sailing, which means tiller or wheel in my hands, not riding the boat with the autopilot on. Do enjoy the summer cruise, but don't like that usually means not enough sailing and too much motoring to get places. Each to his own I guess.
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post #35 of 212 Old 07-13-2019
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Re: Why American do not crossing oceans?

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Looking on my page on Patreon maybe help and encourage sailors to do more oceans crossing
https://www.patreon.com/user?u=21791703
That's it. Americans aren't crossing oceans because they'd rather pay someone else to do it for them.
Why would you do anything enjoyable if you can give money to someone else instead? Are we really so vacuous that we pay these parasites to have our adventures for us?

"The great thing about the internet is that you can quote anyone and no one will bother to check the source" - Aristotle
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post #36 of 212 Old 07-13-2019
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Re: Why American do not crossing oceans?

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We do actually get internet in the West Indies and I have read nothing on it that substantiates your statements, however, if you'd like to post some links I'd be glad to read them. I must say I am very happy that I wasn't an American airline pilot, steelworker or vehicle assembly worker.
I only post from my personal experience, which is indeed limited in this area. From that experience the vast majority of Americans I know who have late-model luxury cars lease, whereas I know no Europeans who lease, and in multiple days of sailing together the topics of housing and vehicles do come up frequently.
We have yet to advertise anywhere in Europe, and, if you reread my post, I said inquiries, not customers. Most are now coming through TripAdvisor. If Americans aren't smart enough to use that, then that's a whole other discussion.
You can just trust me that car sales are a lot higher than leases in the U.S.. Or, you can google it (since you have the internet at your disposal) and find that about 2/3 of new cars last year in the U.S. were sales vs leases. I'm not sure why you're keying in on that, however. Most Americans who lease cars do it for business and tax reasons, which would be pointless to go into. There are fundamental differences between the U.S. and Europe credit policies. Also really not worth going into.

I didn't even know you could find a charter via Trip Advisor. And if I didn't know that, I'm guessing other people don't, either.
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Re: Why American do not crossing oceans?

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I didn't even know you could find a charter via Trip Advisor. And if I didn't know that, I'm guessing other people don't, either.
I kinda don't understand why one might go on TripAdvisor and research every other vacation and not think it a good place to look for charters, especially as it is so area specific.
As for my chasing down internet links to verify your claims, not my job mon.

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Re: Why American do not crossing oceans?

look @ me I did work for 43 yrs on the telecom field saved money for my retirement then in 2008 the Washington Mutual Bank going in bankruptcy I lost all my investment 989k lost in one Friday then I try for 11 yrs to get it back and no way so I decide to change my life live on the ocean all the way to the end with the last money I have not much but I think I can have a good time Sailing with my 57' 1989 Bruce Robert alone if anyone want to cam and join me you are welcome right now I'm in Sao Miguel Island Azores Portugal my next stop will be Canary Island Spain then Cabo Verde Africa after that crossing the south Atlantic to Brazil
you can follow me on https://www.patreon.com/posts/28353915
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post #39 of 212 Old 07-13-2019
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Re: Why American do not crossing oceans?

Still believe it’s cultural. I’m an American. I have friends who think nothing of going off to the far flung corners of the earth. They go to the most rustic, isolated places far from Internet or other “civilized” support. They get dropped in the interior of Alaska to raft down rivers and fly fish. Or motorcycle down the Baha peninsular. Or mountaineer. Or hike in remote areas.
The kids want to kite sail, or fly their moth or dive or helicopter ski. They will spend big money on their leisure time. But they don’t want to cruise.
It has nothing to do with money. Young and old have bunches. Getting a seaplane to drop you off with a raft then pick you up 2 weeks later is twice the cost of a charter in the Caribbean or Aegean. Hunting for big game or mountain goat ain’t cheap either. Hell even a river cruise through Europe will set you back. Friend is taking a trip. He and his wife will hit the architectural wonders of the world. 4 couples on private jet and then heliocopter. Peru, Mexico, Central America China, Egypt, Russia, Africa. Guides do all the clearances and permits. Fully catered. No heavy lifting. Asked if they would have interest in sailing with us. No too confining.
Americans simply don’t want to cruise. They do want to go to the most remote areas but not on a sailboat.
Have gotten friendly with several co-owners. None are starving. All are Americans. We chat about this noting we are the exception. A few of their friends will visit time to time but like my friends their friends have no long term interest in cruising.
Other than Slocum we have few heroes that crossed oceans compared with the French or British. Cruising long distances isn’t in our national psyche. Yes, sailing in general maybe in decline but suspect the paucity of American cruisers in comparison to other nation on a population basis isn’t a new phenomenon.
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post #40 of 212 Old 07-13-2019
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Re: Why American do not crossing oceans?

New. My hat is off to you!! Fair winds and following seas.

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