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post #11 of 21 Old 01-03-2019
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Re: CS 30 - basic info needed

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Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
After 4,587 surveys (including 36, CS30's) I have concluded that although not without faults, the CS boats (in particular the 27, 36T and 30) are at the very top of the heap of production boats.

Paul Tennyson drew up a QC program and actually enforced it from day one of the plant opening. If you have surveyed one CS30, you have surveyed them all. Quite simply, by far the most consistent product of any builder.

Send me a PM with your email address and I will send you an actual survey of a typical CS30 (Private info redacted) later tonight. It may give you an idea of what to look for.

PS. I've never owned a CS and had no interest in the company.
I'd love a copy of a survey, but I'll need to get my post count up first... The CS30 is high on my list right now.
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post #12 of 21 Old 01-03-2019
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Re: CS 30 - basic info needed

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While I fully agree with this comment, I do think for many readers we should make clear that these boats did not share the same design concept and objective. I believe Ray Wall designed the CS 36T to be a performance bluewater cruiser, and that fact shows in numerous elements of its design and construction. I believe Tony Castro designed the CS30 as a performance coastal cruiser, and the design shares nothing in common with the 36T, although your point is that they are similarly well built. A well equipped CS 36T makes a good offshore boat, other than a tendency to pound due to the flat centerline in front of the keel. The CS30, not at all, not to take anything from being as sweet a coastal boat as it is. The story of the crew who bailed off their CS30 during a Bermuda race tells the story on the design differences, and the fundamental importance of selecting a boat that is designed for how you plan to use it.


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Can you elaborate on some of the differences that makes the CS30 so much less suitable than the 36T? Although true offshore may be a few years away, I do hope to go around Vancouver Island after a year of practice cruising the inside coast. If the CS30 is not the boat for this, then I'd best start saving for a 36T now. How about the 33?
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post #13 of 21 Old 01-03-2019
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Re: CS 30 - basic info needed

I just read this article on the CS30 abandoned on the return from Bermuda. It is a bit disconcerting, for sure.

www(dot)soundingsonline.com/news/rented-epirb-brings-ocean-rescue-twice

I wonder if they had the baby stay in place to reduce mast pumping, or would it not have helped? Isn't there a better option than mast wedges?

In more general terms, how tender is the CS30, compared to say, a C&C 30 Mk1 (stiff), or a C&C 30 Mk2 (tender)? Not related to the above, just wondering.
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post #14 of 21 Old 01-04-2019
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Re: CS 30 - basic info needed

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Originally Posted by Shawn Wright View Post
Can you elaborate on some of the differences that makes the CS30 so much less suitable than the 36T? Although true offshore may be a few years away, I do hope to go around Vancouver Island after a year of practice cruising the inside coast. If the CS30 is not the boat for this, then I'd best start saving for a 36T now. How about the 33?
The CS 30 is very suited for coastal cruising. The 33 is also a Ray Wall design, basically a slightly shrunken version of the CS36T. There are numerous magazine reviews of these models around the web, you can find them through Google.

FWIW, here's a story of someone who took a CS 30 to Bermuda and returned in a helicopter rescue basket
https://www.soundingsonline.com/news...n-rescue-twice

Then there's the book written by the couple who over five years cruised a CS36T half way around the world
https://www.amazon.com/Travels-Yeti-.../dp/097675908X

And then there's Mainesail's web page which demonstrates that a well maintained CS36T can qualify as legitimate boat porn
Our Boats Gallery Photo Gallery by Compass Marine How To at pbase.com

Certified...in several regards...
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post #15 of 21 Old 01-04-2019
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Re: CS 30 - basic info needed

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Originally Posted by sailingfool View Post
The CS 30 is very suited for coastal cruising. The 33 is also a Ray Wall design, basically a slightly shrunken version of the CS36T. There are numerous magazine reviews of these models around the web, you can find them through Google.

FWIW, here's a story of someone who took a CS 30 to Bermuda and returned in a helicopter rescue basket
https://www.soundingsonline.com/news...n-rescue-twice

Then there's the book written by the couple who over five years cruised a CS36T half way around the world
https://www.amazon.com/Travels-Yeti-.../dp/097675908X

And then there's Mainesail's web page which demonstrates that a well maintained CS36T can qualify as legitimate boat porn
Our Boats Gallery Photo Gallery by Compass Marine How To at pbase.com
Thanks for the info. I read the Bermuda story, and it seems the primary weakness was a suspected hull to deck joint leak, and the pumping mast. It is unclear if the fuel leak could be attributed to a design flaw or just something overlooked by the owner. It's a shame the boat could not be recovered to determine the source of the leak. Are the hull-deck joint and mast pumping known issues on the CS30? Are there other limitations inherent in the design or execution which preclude safe offshore use?

I have compared the 30, 33, and 36T on SailCalc, and by the numbers, the 33 would appear to be closer to the 30, with a displacement of 10,000, vs the 36T and 15,000, and the 30 at 8000 lbs. But there are plenty of boats smaller than the 30 which have proven off shore records; I know someone who has gone around twice, including Cape Horn, once with a Vega, and once with a Vancouver 27.

I wonder if the failures in the Bermuda CS30 were related to the fact that it was prepared for an offshore race, as opposed to an offshore passage. The 30 is already a quick boat in standard rig, so just beefing up the rig may have transferred more load to the hull than it was designed for, resulting in the failure of the hull-deck joint?

The CS 30 seems like a great boat in many ways, so I don't want to take it off my list due to one bad account, but I also want a boat I can feel safe going around Vancouver Island in, and perhaps down the coast to California and Mexico.

Thanks.
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post #16 of 21 Old 01-10-2019
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Re: CS 30 - basic info needed

Hello all,

This site has a wealth of info and photos of the CS30:

CS30 Documents - Bottrell.ca
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Re: CS 30 - basic info needed

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Originally Posted by Shawn Wright View Post
....

I wonder if the failures in the Bermuda CS30 were related to the fact that it was prepared for an offshore race, as opposed to an offshore passage. The 30 is already a quick boat in standard rig, so just beefing up the rig may have transferred more load to the hull than it was designed for, resulting in the failure of the hull-deck joint?

The CS 30 seems like a great boat in many ways, so I don't want to take it off my list due to one bad account, but I also want a boat I can feel safe going around Vancouver Island in, and perhaps down the coast to California and Mexico.

Thanks.
You're describing coastal cruising and the CS 30 seems a fit design for that use. So go for it.

It appears that the owner of the "one bad account" boat made quite an effort to prepare his boat for an offshore race. What overcame his effort is that boat was not fit for that purpose, starting with the design intent of the designer. I really like the CS 30, but it is not fit for offshore use, whereas a design like the CS36T is, ie the designer well achieved his intent, an performance offshore boat. You can't overcome characteristics designed into a boat by refits and adding equipment.

To get a feel for "fit" read this story about a Catalina 36 abandoned on a trip to Hawaii.
EQUIPPED TO SURVIVE (tm) - Lessons Learned: Sailing to Hawaii...The First Attempt by Arnold Rowe
Based on the problems experienced with the boat, does it seem that model Catalina was fit for that type of trip?
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Last edited by sailingfool; 01-11-2019 at 08:35 PM.
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post #18 of 21 Old 01-11-2019
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Re: CS 30 - basic info needed

I don't think that cruising around Vancouver Island necessarily requires a very large boat. Choose a decent weather window and learn enough in advance to avoid the extreme currents and numerous reefs.
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post #19 of 21 Old 01-11-2019
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Re: CS 30 - basic info needed

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Originally Posted by sailingfool View Post
You're describing coastal cruising and the CS 30 seems a fit design for that use. So go for it.

It appears that the owner of the "one bad account" boat made quite an effort to prepare his boat for an offshore race. What overcame his effort is that boat was not fit for that purpose, starting with the design intent of the designer. I really like the CS 30, but it is not fit for offshore use, whereas a design like the CS36T is, ie the designer well achieved his intent, an performance offshore boat. You can't overcome characteristics designed into a boat by refits and adding equipment.

To get a feel for "fit" read this story about a Catalina 36 abandoned on a trip to Hawaii.
EQUIPPED TO SURVIVE (tm) - Lessons Learned: Sailing to Hawaii...The First Attempt by Arnold Rowe
Based on the problems experienced with the boat, does it seem that model Catalina was fit for that type of trip?
How does one tell if a boat design is fit for offshore use, if the designer/manufacturer doesn't indicate this? Is it safest to assume that unless offshore sailing is part of the design, then it isn't? With older boats where this info may not be available, one of the several bluewater lists is a good resource, I assume. Relying on the fact that one example of a design (eg: Catalina 27) may have successfully gone offshore is risky, as it just means that person got lucky...

Thanks for sharing the Catalina 36 story - very informative. I've heard that the S&S designed Catalina 38 is a good offshore boat, but apparently not the 36...
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post #20 of 21 Old 04-22-2019
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Re: CS 30 - basic info needed

where is the story of the CS30 during Bermuda race?

Thanks,

Doug
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