Storm jib for CS30? - Page 2 - SailNet Community
 23Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #11 of 32 Old 10-12-2017 Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 21
Thanks: 21
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Re: Storm jib for CS30?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeAgent View Post
Agreed. Mind you, any time I have sailed in Toronto area, it has been virtually dead calm

We were at one time in the sail business. We sold quite a number of storm jibs and storm trysails. Can't imagine any of them were put to good use. Never mind Lake Ontario, even on those boats heading South to Bahamas and Islands.

Only use I could see, would be on ocean crossings in storm conditions.

If wind pipes up to 25+, just roll the genoa to handkerchief size and put a reef in the main (or take it down)

Thanks everyone for your comments. Sounds like I should hold off on the storm jib. I do have one remaining question though. I see how a partially (or even mostly) furled headsail would be the answer for reaching or downwind. But what if winds are up and your destination is upwind? Wouldn't a storm jib do a much better job of pointing? Otherwise your choices are unfurled jib (i've been using #3 all season) and too much heeling or partially furled jib and poor sail shape?
justin forkix is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 32 Old 10-12-2017
Senior Member
 
Arcb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 3,306
Thanks: 195
Thanked 165 Times in 161 Posts
Rep Power: 3
 
Re: Storm jib for CS30?

So, you are not happy with just sailing, you want to sail faster?

Excellent.

Get the best speed you can out of your current sails and current boat.

A storm jib won't make you faster. More sail and less weight will make you faster.

Enjoy
Arcb is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Arcb For This Useful Post:
justin forkix (10-13-2017)
post #13 of 32 Old 10-12-2017
Senior Member
 
Faster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 19,489
Thanks: 160
Thanked 587 Times in 558 Posts
Rep Power: 16
     
Re: Storm jib for CS30?

Quote:
Originally Posted by justin forkix View Post
Thanks everyone for your comments. Sounds like I should hold off on the storm jib. I do have one remaining question though......
But what if winds are up and your destination is upwind? Wouldn't a storm jib do a much better job of pointing? Otherwise your choices are unfurled jib (i've been using #3 all season) and too much heeling or partially furled jib and poor sail shape?
That is why I suggested a 90 or 100% jib for those conditions. You'd be much better off having changed down to an appropriate sail.
RichH, Arcb and justin forkix like this.

Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
Faster is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Faster For This Useful Post:
justin forkix (10-13-2017)
 
post #14 of 32 Old 10-13-2017
al brazzi
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Lower Chesapeake bay
Posts: 1,969
Thanks: 0
Thanked 79 Times in 79 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Storm jib for CS30?

Shes not a heavy Boat so keeping the right size headsail is important when the wind gets up. Pointing in windy conditions gets difficult with sea state as well. Follow the last few suggestions and find a smaller sail with a hard pendant so the furler still works.
RichH and justin forkix like this.
albrazzi is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to albrazzi For This Useful Post:
justin forkix (10-13-2017)
post #15 of 32 Old 10-13-2017
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Ontario
Posts: 389
Thanks: 1
Thanked 39 Times in 39 Posts
Rep Power: 3
 
Re: Storm jib for CS30?

Quote:
Originally Posted by albrazzi View Post
Follow the last few suggestions and find a smaller sail with a hard pendant so the furler still works.
Head pennant This so the swivel still goes all the way to the top of the foil. If you don't do this, you get halyard wrap and may not be able to get the sail down!

Regarding using a furled sail upwind. Why not just try it? You will learn more there than on the forum

You will find that your CS-30 will sail upwind just fine with your #3 furled to size not much bigger than a storm jib +reefed main in almost any wind you will see in your area. Just make sure the sheeting angle is correct or adjust it so it is. Can be a problem if jib is cut low.

Friends with CS-33, used to often sail with just their #3 jib, no main. And if you really need to get back home to windward use the engine with or without a sail up!
RichH, Arcb and justin forkix like this.
FreeAgent is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to FreeAgent For This Useful Post:
justin forkix (10-13-2017)
post #16 of 32 Old 10-14-2017
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 168
Thanks: 3
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 12
 
Re: Storm jib for CS30?

FWIW, I sail a Tartan 27 and I carry a Gale Sail storm jib and the good people on this site have debated the merits of this style of sail. In 15 years sailing around Long Island Sound and the coastal Atlantic, I have only used it a handful of times when the wind was north of 30 kts.

When the forecast calls for stronger winds, I drop my most frequently used sail, a 160, which I can roll but don't like to, and go down my smallest jib, a 115 with a high clew. I forget the weight of the fabric, but it's a stout sail. I have carried it with sustained winds between 25-30 comfortably.

I still carry the storm jib just in case. It seems to me that most casual sailors do not carry one because the conditions that require one are pretty easy to avoid.

Save your boat bucks for something else.

Skywalker
RichH and justin forkix like this.
SkywalkerII is offline  
post #17 of 32 Old 10-14-2017
Senior Member
 
JimsCAL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Glen Cove, NY
Posts: 4,370
Thanks: 5
Thanked 201 Times in 193 Posts
Rep Power: 12
 
Re: Storm jib for CS30?

Some clarification is needed. In your first post you state you are using a #1. In a later post you state you have been using a #3 all season. Note a #1 is about 150% and a #3 about 110%. Big difference.

If indeed it's a 110 on a furler, there is little need for a storm jib for coastal sailing. With that sail on a furler and decent reefing capability on the main, you are covered. If it's a 150, then a smaller headsail for heavy air would be worthwhile. But just a smaller jib/genny, not a storm jib.
justin forkix likes this.

S/V First Tracks
1985 Cal 33-2
JimsCAL is online now  
The Following User Says Thank You to JimsCAL For This Useful Post:
justin forkix (10-14-2017)
post #18 of 32 Old 10-14-2017 Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Toronto
Posts: 21
Thanks: 21
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Re: Storm jib for CS30?

Thanks JimsCAL, I noticed later that I had made a mistake. I should have said #3 jib in my first post. I tried the #1 and the #3 and liked the #3 because most times I went out it was windy enough to get to 5 - 7 knots of speed despite the smaller headsail. #3 is easier to tack and easier to see around (gets crowded in Outer Harbour.) Strongest wind was around 20 knots and because I'm new I double reefed the main and for sure, the #3 was fine. I ended up leaving it up all summer. I do have a furler.

The reason for my question was wondering about 30-40 knot winds. I doubt I'd go out in them but hope to do some longer travels, and you never know. It's hard to practice in advance for these conditions around here. I've noticed that on the odd day the winds do get up on LO no one goes out. I think I'd like to have the storm jib on a removable inner forestay and I'm going to look into whether or not there is a suitable point on my foredeck for an chainplate to secure it.
justin forkix is offline  
post #19 of 32 Old 10-14-2017
Senior Member
 
RichH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 5,021
Thanks: 54
Thanked 326 Times in 310 Posts
Rep Power: 20
   
Re: Storm jib for CS30?

justin forkix -
If you would take your request to just about any good sail loft, they would measure the position of each reef position in your mainsail; and then, 'balance' with the appropriate jib shape and jib sail area to match each reef position already there on your mainsail. This of course assumes that at or much above 20kts, you are reefing your boat at these windspeed.
The CS30 is probably raced in your area so the boat designer's detailed / combined sail plans will probably be on file at most sail lofts.
This will allow the selection of any smaller jib to 'match' the balance (helm balance) of your boat vs. the mainsail being 'full up', 1st reef, second reef, (maybe a 3rd reef).

An alternative is to measure each reef position distance - from the boom to each reef - in your mainsail .... and 'some of us' will calculate the new approx. required 'balance' (combo of sail area and geometric configuration) between a new smaller jib and your already installed reefing configuration. Then when you get 'our' basic recommendations, you can look in the used sail market in your area for something 'similar' and close to the sail area and shape preliminarily recommended ..... and you will probably have little to no 'helm balance' PROBLEMS with a 'new' (to you) smaller jib bought from a used sail outlet.

Need:
1. vertical distance from each mainsail reef position from the boom
2. The approx. heel angle that your boat makes when 'beating' in (fill-in the blank) wind speed .... and how with many reefs youre sailing with at that reported approx. heel angle.
3. How much wind strength do you 'want' to sail in?

I checked with the online CS30 'owners manual' (very detailed!!!) but missing the detailed designers combined 'sail plan' sketches. This would be a detailed sail plan sketch/drawing that has a little circle with an + within the circle (CE) imprinted on the mainsail ... and on your boat would be located just aft of the mast and about 1/3 'the way up' from the boom. So if you, or anyone else here, has such a sketch (with *combined centroid of sail area* - CE - w/ 100% jib), it would be 'really' helpful to reply with such calculations/estimates and initial recommendations.

;-)
justin forkix likes this.

Last edited by RichH; 10-14-2017 at 11:51 AM.
RichH is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to RichH For This Useful Post:
justin forkix (10-14-2017)
post #20 of 32 Old 10-14-2017
Senior Member
 
Faster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 19,489
Thanks: 160
Thanked 587 Times in 558 Posts
Rep Power: 16
     
Re: Storm jib for CS30?

Quote:
Originally Posted by justin forkix View Post
..... I think I'd like to have the storm jib on a removable inner forestay and I'm going to look into whether or not there is a suitable point on my foredeck for an chainplate to secure it.
Gotta say I think this is going overboard on this issue unless crossing oceans is truly on your horizon. If you go ahead with this plan I'd love to see the '# of times needed/used' stats 5 years or so down the road.

In the meantime, cleanly and quietly stowing a 'removable forestay' (typically only release-able at the deck) is a nuisance as the stay will always be longer than the vertical distance from mast fitting to the deck.. Attaining the necessary tension when using such a setup will require running backstays. These are all added complications to the rigging, never mind the issue of fitting the chainplate in a way that will take the loads, and the risk to the integrity of the cored deck in the event of any leaks. All doable, but IMO more than what's needed unless you're a charter member of 'Stormchasers' .

If you do go with this plan I wonder if a stay of Dyneema would work, certainly easier and quieter to stow.
RichH and justin forkix like this.

Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
Faster is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Faster For This Useful Post:
justin forkix (10-14-2017)
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
looking for used jib or storm jib bman5646max MacGregor 1 08-25-2018 10:04 AM
Reefing blade jib to storm jib pdqaltair Gear & Maintenance 6 04-30-2015 10:02 AM
why a storm jib? Gregrosine General Discussion (sailing related) 72 03-29-2014 01:21 PM
Storm Jib BreakAwayFL General Discussion (sailing related) 10 05-14-2012 08:50 AM
storm jib doctom Gear & Maintenance 39 03-04-2007 12:16 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome