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post #21 of 32 Old 10-14-2017
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Re: Storm jib for CS30?

Going with the full inner forestay storm jib set up on Lake Ontario, especially on a boat like a CS 30, just doesn't add up to me. Its not a big enough body of water to justify riding out a serious storm on. I can not think of anywhere on the lake where you are more than 25 miles or so from safety.

If you decide to do a big trip some time further down the line, then order the sails you need for the trip, maybe 6 months or so before the trip. If you order a sail now, in case you want one for a longer ocean voyage some time in the future, it might just sit collecting dust in your basement.

It sounds like this was maybe your first season on the boat. You will likely start off with simpler trips over the next couple of seasons. Niagara On The Lake, Bay of Quinte, Thousand Islands. Why not try getting those trips off your list with your current sails (provided they are in decent condition). Then you will have a better idea of what it is you really need for tripping around. I think you will find there are lots of things to spend your money on before rigging inner forestays and having storm jibs made.
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post #22 of 32 Old 10-14-2017
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Re: Storm jib for CS30?

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Originally Posted by FreeAgent View Post

Regarding using a furled sail upwind. Why not just try it? You will learn more there than on the forum You will find that your CS-30 will sail upwind just fine with your #3 furled to size not much bigger than a storm jib +reefed main in almost any wind you will see in your area. Just make sure the sheeting angle is correct or adjust it so it is. Can be a problem if jib is cut low.
We have a 1978 Catalina 27'. Tomorrow in the Chesapeake where we sail is calling for 15 to 20 knots with gusts to 25 knots. We can put 2 reefs in the main sail. Our jib is also on a furler so we want to 'reef' it (roll it on the furler) to make the sail smaller.

We're never sure where to put the car that's on the track for reefing the head sail. I guess I don't really understand what a good sail shape should look like and what the sheeting angle should be when our furled jib is reefed (partially rolled in). I know the car needs to be pushed forward toward the bow when reefing our furled jib from prior discussions here on sailnet. So we usually just push the car all the way forward on the track when reefing jib, and bringing it as far toward the stern as possible when not reefing the jib. But truthfully I don't have a grasp of what 'good sail shape' means, or how pushing the car back and forth on the track really affects the sail shape.

Any explanation on the definition of 'good sail shape' and 'correct sheeting angle' for reefed jib would be really helpful. Our boat has been on dry dock all year getting fiberglass fixed so tomorrow will be our first time sailing this year (last time sailing was fall 2016) so we are looking forward to taking her out tomorrow as there won't be much more opportunities to taking her out once the cold weather of November begins. Gusting to 25 knots though is a little above our comfort zone (we prefer 10-15 knots with max. gusts no greater than 20 knots). So we want to be sure everything is properly reefed and angled so we can control the boat.

This forum is such a wonderful place to come for information; was glad to see this current thread discussion today since although our boat is a Catalina, our question of reefing the jib sail in high winds is similar. Thanks for any responses.
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Re: Storm jib for CS30?

Go look on the Net for sail shape...lots of good stuff there.
You're holding and pulling a triangle, and how it's held makes its shape..and you'll get an idea of how that large triangle affects your boat...in different conditions.

Prob good stuff on yutube too.

It'll open your eyes quick regarding what you are working with.
You'll like it.
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post #24 of 32 Old 10-14-2017
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Re: Storm jib for CS30?

For any given sail, the sheet angle from car through clew should intersect mid luff of the sail.

Can't directly link to PB anymore, but this might work:

file_zpsf4ed1717.jpg Photo by Faster345 | Photobucket

That image should help you visualize things. Generally you want similar foot and leech tension. Partially rolled headsails are problematic because they don't necessarily 'roll up' in a way that allows you to properly set both foot and leech tension (they are not the ideal, original sail proportions), you just have to do the best you can once you start rolling up some sail area.

Certainly 'full aft' and 'full forward' is not likely to be very optimal...

Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
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post #25 of 32 Old 10-14-2017
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Re: Storm jib for CS30?

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Originally Posted by Faster View Post
For any given sail, the sheet angle from car through clew should intersect mid luff of the sail.

Can't directly link to PB anymore, but this might work:

file_zpsf4ed1717.jpg Photo by Faster345 | Photobucket

That image should help you visualize things. Generally you want similar foot and leech tension. Partially rolled headsails are problematic because they don't necessarily 'roll up' in a way that allows you to properly set both foot and leech tension (they are not the ideal, original sail proportions), you just have to do the best you can once you start rolling up some sail area.

Certainly 'full aft' and 'full forward' is not likely to be very optimal...
Faster thank you _so_ much. This helped tremendously. I remember the discussion about the sheet angle from car through clew should intersect mid luff of the sail. But I never understood why.

Quote:
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Generally you want similar foot and leech tension.
Now I understand why. The goal is for foot tension to equal leech tension. So in your photograph, I think I understand what you are saying is:
  • if the car is moved toward the bow, the leech would tighten and the foot would loosen.
  • if the car is moved toward the stern, the foot would tighten and the leech would loosen.
So having the sheet angle intersect mid luff of the sail, allows foot tension to equal leech tension the best it can for a sail on a furler.

Trying to figure out if the angle cuts the luff in half while underway was a little confusing; but now that i understand the purpose is to make the leech tension equal the foot tension i think will help us accomplish this better tomorrow. I think we will try different positions of the car before we leave the dock tomorrow morning in order to stand back away from the boat and see the angle from a distance in order to place the car correctly. I know this sounds silly, but when you said foot tension should equal leech tension this little lightbulb turned on in my head with the thought "Now I understand!". I wish I could send you the pleasure that that little lightbulb just gave me because I could never understand why before. Thank you so much!
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Re: Storm jib for CS30?

You're welcome... enjoy!!

Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
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Re: Storm jib for CS30?

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Originally Posted by RegisteredUser View Post
You're holding and pulling a triangle, and how it's held makes its shape.
That's a great way of looking at it that i hadn't considered. Thank you!
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Re: Storm jib for CS30?

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You're welcome... enjoy!!

We shall see... tomorrow calling for 25 knot gusts in the Chesapeake .. a little over our comfort level .. your help in understanding how our sails should be shaped so we have best control of the boat is priceless. Thank you!
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Re: Storm jib for CS30?

Where you looking at 25Kts. Forecast 3-4 here
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Re: Storm jib for CS30?

Char.. in heavier breezes it's often helpful to pull the car a little aft of normal to induce some twist in the jib to 'spill' some power up high.. just a hole or two in the track..

However with a 130-150% genoa 'rolled up' for 25 knots you'll just have to play with the position til you find what works best.

Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
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