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SailRedemption 04-20-2014 12:49 PM

Repowering - Newer engine models
 
22 Attachment(s)
I'm repowering my Kaufman 47, it's 30-35k lbs. It had a old Volkswagen Pathfinder 75hp diesel in it that doesn't work in it.

I was leaning towards a new cummins 4b 3.3 which is 65hp but have been hearing they are known to vibrate ridiculously. But it's ready to go at $10k. Now I'm looking at a new Yanmar 4HJ4-TE which is rated for 75hp. Going to call about price on that one tomorrow. Then I am hesitant to possibly get a new Perkins M92B which is rated for 85hp. Now the Perkins is a more hp than I need but they don't offer anything smaller unless I go with a remanufactured engine from TAD and the hp would be too low at 55hp.

So I'm stuck in this conundrum on where to turn. I'm leaning mostly to Yanmar at the moment but I'm not sure if I'm over thinking the high rpm and turbo of the Yanmar or its something to be concerned with. I have looked online and here for threads about these newer engines but it seems that there isn't much information on them. Everything is usually about the older models from a decade or more ago...

Does anyone have any recent comments on these newer engines? Experience?

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kd3pc 04-20-2014 02:49 PM

Re: Repowering - Newer engine models
 
There is more to a repower than horsepower. I would pay to talk to some larger marine repower mechanics. While the 4b may be $10K, install and management systems, redoing the fuel system, props, trans adapaters and the like may add more. I think the 4HJ4 is even more money.

Parts for the Cummins may be an issue when compared to the Yanmar or Perkins. Having had several Yanmars, my vote would be for that, assuming it will plug and play.

BEst of luck.

miatapaul 04-20-2014 02:51 PM

Re: Repowering - Newer engine models
 
Why dos the pathfinder not work? Some don't like them because of the timing belt, but as long as you maintain them it should be good. Seems like you should be able to get a replacement motor and swap over the marinizing bits. Lots of folks seem to diss pathfinder, but others love theirs.

Check out these guys as they get some good new motors in every now and then.

VW Parts, VW Diesel Parts, VW TDI Parts @ Parts Place Inc.

I used to keep there catalog in my glove box when I drove a Vanagon.

Most people say to expect to pay as much as the motor/transmission in miscellaneous parts and machine shop work, even if doing the work yourself. So while a new VW motor may not save that much over a Cummins or Yanmar at least you know the other stuff will fit.

SailRedemption 04-20-2014 09:02 PM

Re: Repowering - Newer engine models
 
22 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by kd3pc (Post 1756618)
There is more to a repower than horsepower. I would pay to talk to some larger marine repower mechanics. While the 4b may be $10K, install and management systems, redoing the fuel system, props, trans adapaters and the like may add more. I think the 4HJ4 is even more money.

Parts for the Cummins may be an issue when compared to the Yanmar or Perkins. Having had several Yanmars, my vote would be for that, assuming it will plug and play.

BEst of luck.

When you only have a few options for horsepower, it's trivial. I know the torque curves are different but gear and prop sizes makes up for that.

There is currently nothing there, no fuel systems, prop(was left on for a decade so it's eaten up beyond repair), the hurth vdrive is shot as well. This isn't my first engine install, I'm not worried about that aspect, I'm asking about the actual engines.

Thanks for the Yanmar vote, but have you used or heard anything about the new 4HJ4?

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SailRedemption 04-20-2014 09:07 PM

Re: Repowering - Newer engine models
 
22 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by miatapaul (Post 1756626)
Why dos the pathfinder not work? Some don't like them because of the timing belt, but as long as you maintain them it should be good. Seems like you should be able to get a replacement motor and swap over the marinizing bits. Lots of folks seem to diss pathfinder, but others love theirs.

Check out these guys as they get some good new motors in every now and then.

VW Parts, VW Diesel Parts, VW TDI Parts @ Parts Place Inc.

I used to keep there catalog in my glove box when I drove a Vanagon.

Most people say to expect to pay as much as the motor/transmission in miscellaneous parts and machine shop work, even if doing the work yourself. So while a new VW motor may not save that much over a Cummins or Yanmar at least you know the other stuff will fit.

It is missing some pieces as far as we know.. It turns over but we can't get the injection pump to spit fuel. We need a manual. But the main reason I'm not going to go back with that is because it's an ancient engine, that has a timing belt Achilles heel and the parts network is one distributor(one in Canada as far as I know) away from nonexistent. I would like to get a new engine so I know where I stand with it. And there isn't anything to fit on the newer engines because I took it all out.

So I'm just asking about the actual engines that are being sold new now from Yanmar, Perkins, and Cummins..

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UnionPacific 04-20-2014 10:01 PM

Re: Repowering - Newer engine models
 
you can get a kubota for $5000 on ebay rebuilt. Then all you are missing is the heat exchanger, engine mounts, and the exhaust riser. Not hard to buy those items.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kubota-V2403...57a5bc&vxp=mtr

SoloBob 04-20-2014 10:05 PM

Re: Repowering - Newer engine models
 
I'm preparing to repower in the Fall, and I'm looking at both the Beta and Yanmar ....

Beta 75 Link .... Beta 75hp ( V3600 ) Marine Diesel engines
(BETA Marine West used to have pricing up, but I couldn't find it tonight)

Yanmar 75 Link Yanmar Diesel Engines ( BTW - registering doesn't give you a better price)

It's my understanding that the online pricing is more than actual sale price.

I'm looking for something in the 50 HP range, so my options are slightly different.

Personally, I think I'm going to wind up with a naturally aspirated Yanmar, I really like the Beta, but in my case length is critical, and the BETA is about 4 inches longer..... and I need that 4 Inches.

I tend to shy away from Turbo Chargers, it's just an added bit that is extremely expensive, and tends to fail. ( at least I've been reading some stories about the Yanmar Turbo Charger being a major issue )

Hope you find something in all this you can use.

L8tr

UnionPacific 04-20-2014 10:15 PM

Re: Repowering - Newer engine models
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SoloBob (Post 1757714)
I'm preparing to repower in the Fall, and I'm looking at both the Beta and Yanmar ....

Beta 75 Link .... Beta 75hp ( V3600 ) Marine Diesel engines
(BETA Marine West used to have pricing up, but I couldn't find it tonight)

Yanmar 75 Link Yanmar Diesel Engines ( BTW - registering doesn't give you a better price)

It's my understanding that the online pricing is more than actual sale price.

I'm looking for something in the 50 HP range, so my options are slightly different.

Personally, I think I'm going to wind up with a naturally aspirated Yanmar, I really like the Beta, but in my case length is critical, and the BETA is about 4 inches longer..... and I need that 4 Inches.

I tend to shy away from Turbo Chargers, it's just an added bit that is extremely expensive, and tends to fail. ( at least I've been reading some stories about the Yanmar Turbo Charger being a major issue )

Hope you find something in all this you can use.

L8tr

75HP's are about 18,000 from both vendors.
Turbo's are fine as long as they are low pressure. Replace them at 2500-3000 hours thou to be safe. If one fails, it can take the engine out with it. MAke sure the engine you buy is IDI not DI. For goodness sake, DI in a boat is a disaster waiting to happen. OH, turbos are cheap. (3-400)

SailRedemption 04-21-2014 07:16 AM

Re: Repowering - Newer engine models
 
22 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by UnionPacific (Post 1757738)
75HP's are about 18,000 from both vendors.
Turbo's are fine as long as they are low pressure. Replace them at 2500-3000 hours thou to be safe. If one fails, it can take the engine out with it. MAke sure the engine you buy is IDI not DI. For goodness sake, DI in a boat is a disaster waiting to happen. OH, turbos are cheap. (3-400)

Low pressure, would the Yanmar be considered low pressure? I can't find any numbers on turbo pressure..

Who makes a IDI engine? Yanmar, Perkins, and cummins are all direct injection engines... Why is that a disaster? You get the best fuel economy that way.

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SoloBob 04-21-2014 07:20 AM

Re: Repowering - Newer engine models
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by UnionPacific (Post 1757738)
75HP's are about 18,000 from both vendors.
Turbo's are fine as long as they are low pressure. Replace them at 2500-3000 hours thou to be safe. If one fails, it can take the engine out with it. MAke sure the engine you buy is IDI not DI. For goodness sake, DI in a boat is a disaster waiting to happen. OH, turbos are cheap. (3-400)

That's Interesting, I guess different browsers, give different pricing..... the RadMarine link, depending on Transmission choices range from $ 13,875.00 to 16,308.00 USD.

As far as the comments about Indirect Injection, VS Direct Injection... I guess that's a matter of Opinion, but IDI has just about been completely abandoned at this point. I don't see why having either in a marine environment would mater.

A good discussion of it is located here: IDI vs DI Diesel Engines

Yanmar Turbos at around 3- 400 bucks? You should stock up on those.

I'm sorry to regress here, but one of the reasons I restrain myself from posting in most of the blogs is that people prefer not to contribute to the OP's thread topic, but rather to to seize upon the opportunity to use the thread to attack other posters ( sometimes in the most gentle way), and by doing so, show how much of an "expert" they are. The OP is posing a question, and looking for Opinions from other members.... at least in this case.... not offering up a debate between others. I was hoping to contribute to the OPs query... again, I'm sorry for my regression, but sometimes I just can't let it go.


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