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-   -   Fuel lifting pump making noise when first starting engine (https://www.sailnet.com/forums/diesel/329554-fuel-lifting-pump-making-noise-when-first-starting-engine.html)

krisscross 05-09-2019 08:08 AM

Fuel lifting pump making noise when first starting engine
 
My NAPA electric fuel pump is making a noise when the ignition key is turned on. Noise is kind of clicking. It only happens when engine is started for the first time. Is that normal? I will buy a new pump just in case but I donít want to put it on if I donít have to. Any steps I need to take to make sure I donít get air into my fuel injection pump? Your help is greatly appreciated.

Capt Len 05-09-2019 10:20 AM

Re: Fuel lifting pump making noise when first starting engine
 
Clicking is the internal solenoid bringing the pressure up to normal. Normal. If you delay starting the engine and clicking persists ,the pump may be leaking back or there is a leak somewhere (Good fuel to pump so it's not sucking on a limited supply?) If you do open a line to replace or? the worst may be you may have to bleed the engine .Everyone should know how to do that anyway

krisscross 05-09-2019 06:58 PM

Re: Fuel lifting pump making noise when first starting engine
 
Thanks, Len. I hope thatís what it is. Any idea what pressure is that pump producing? The engine is Yanmar 3HM35F. I could not find that parameter in my engine manual. I want to buy a right pump and they go by pressure requirements.

Minnewaska 05-10-2019 01:44 PM

Re: Fuel lifting pump making noise when first starting engine
 
The 3 cyl yanmar in our generator has an electric fuel pump that automatically primes the fuel system, when you hit the start button. It buzzes, more than clicks.

You said NAPA. Is that some sort of aftermarket thing?

RegisteredUser 05-10-2019 01:53 PM

Re: Fuel lifting pump making noise when first starting engine
 
An equal low pressure priming pump costs <$20

capta 05-10-2019 04:41 PM

Re: Fuel lifting pump making noise when first starting engine
 
Yep, normal. Our Onan also clicks until the fuel is up to pressure and we often hear it when running the glow plug before starting.

krisscross 05-10-2019 06:00 PM

Re: Fuel lifting pump making noise when first starting engine
 
Yes, its a NAPA pump that PO installed between the Racor filter and the injection pump. Any idea what fuel delivery pressure is needed there? I would like to have a backup and guy at NAPA tells me I need to know that. I have read somewhere that itís about 6 to 8 psi.

RegisteredUser 05-10-2019 06:06 PM

I dont have that engine but afaik...it is a low pressure 4-7 pump.
Look for an ID number on that napa.

krisscross 05-10-2019 06:53 PM

Re: Fuel lifting pump making noise when first starting engine
 
Not much info on that pump that can be seen without uninstalling it.

wsmurdoch 05-10-2019 07:03 PM

Re: Fuel lifting pump making noise when first starting engine
 
For a replacement pump, spend some quality time on the Walbro fuel pump web site. https://www.walbro.com They make USCG approved marine fuel pumps and are the standard Many people sell them.

Bill

capta 05-10-2019 07:09 PM

Re: Fuel lifting pump making noise when first starting engine
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by krisscross (Post 2051601198)
Yes, its a NAPA pump that PO installed between the Racor filter and the injection pump. Any idea what fuel delivery pressure is needed there? I would like to have a backup and guy at NAPA tells me I need to know that. I have read somewhere that itís about 6 to 8 psi.

It's not about pressure at that point in the system, just GPH. Obviously, your pump must pump enough fuel for the diesel to run.
We on sailboats don't have much problem with even the smallest pumps rated by GPH but imagine a motor vessel using 75 to over 100 GPH per engine. That's when electric fuel pumps start getting expensive.

capta 05-10-2019 07:33 PM

Re: Fuel lifting pump making noise when first starting engine
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wsmurdoch (Post 2051601218)
For a replacement pump, spend some quality time on the Walbro fuel pump web site. https://www.walbro.com They make USCG approved marine fuel pumps and are the standard Many people sell them.

Bill

If I was running a gas engine, I'd certainly agree with you, but on our small diesels where ignition protection is unnecessary, the cheap ones seem to do just fine.

RegisteredUser 05-10-2019 07:37 PM

Capta is right.
Im outta this one....

SeanM26 05-11-2019 01:36 AM

Automotive technician here; I recommend my customers avoid NAPA parts if at all possible. If it fails in a car, no big deal. Boats are not cars.

Also, a failed diesel lift pump can cause the injection pump to fail.

Cassidy 05-13-2019 03:22 AM

Re: Fuel lifting pump making noise when first starting engine
 
Typically a Yanmar has a fuel bypass that sends excess fuel that the engine doesnít need to run, back to the tank. Well, at least the 4-cyl ones do, no reason to think the smaller ones are different.

So if the engine switch is on and the engine isnít started, the pump you describe will continue clicking interminably as the fuel cycles back to the tank. These pumps click each time they deliver fuel, yours may click more frequently while the engine runs as a result of the through flow system.

I installed a diesel flow pump normally fitted to a Ford Explorer, pumps adequate volume for a 4JH4E and gently buzzes in the background. The downside is that the fuel is warmed by the through-flow and brings the temperature of the whole fuel tank up. I havenít had problems yet but I often wonder about condensation, diesel bug and all those other horror stories.

overbored 05-13-2019 10:21 AM

Re: Fuel lifting pump making noise when first starting engine
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cassidy (Post 2051601674)
Typically a Yanmar has a fuel bypass that sends excess fuel that the engine doesnít need to run, back to the tank. Well, at least the 4-cyl ones do, no reason to think the smaller ones are different.

So if the engine switch is on and the engine isnít started, the pump you describe will continue clicking interminably as the fuel cycles back to the tank. These pumps click each time they deliver fuel, yours may click more frequently while the engine runs as a result of the through flow system.

I installed a diesel flow pump normally fitted to a Ford Explorer, pumps adequate volume for a 4JH4E and gently buzzes in the background. The downside is that the fuel is warmed by the through-flow and brings the temperature of the whole fuel tank up. I havenít had problems yet but I often wonder about condensation, diesel bug and all those other horror stories.

the Yanmar does have a return line on the 4 cylinder and smaller engines but it is from the high pressure injectors and not the lift pump side of the injection pump so it only returns fuel when the engine is running. the reason the engineers have the fuel return back to the fuel tank is to cool the excess fuel that is coming back from the hotter fuel injectors. most Yammers have a mechanical engine driven lift pump and really don't need an electric lift pump unless the tank is placed to low in the system to meet the Yanmar requirements.

Capt Len 05-13-2019 11:29 AM

Re: Fuel lifting pump making noise when first starting engine
 
A thought... GMC's with unit injectors pump an immense amount of fuel back to the tank to cool their injectors,Little engines do the same but more discreetly. If your system has a short closed loop to save running a return line back to tank any heat or bubbles or crud stays in the loop

capta 05-13-2019 02:58 PM

Re: Fuel lifting pump making noise when first starting engine
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanM26 (Post 2051601268)
Automotive technician here; I recommend my customers avoid NAPA parts if at all possible. If it fails in a car, no big deal. Boats are not cars.

Also, a failed diesel lift pump can cause the injection pump to fail.

lol Well you see, that's the difference between us marine engineers and you Automotive technicians. Whereas you've got to go buy a replacement, we've got one or two spares stuck away in a drawer somewhere and can make the change before you've got your order into NAPA guy.
Two completely different mentalities; sadly, we don't have a NAPA store out there on the briny. lol

kmacdonald5 05-13-2019 11:49 PM

Re: Fuel lifting pump making noise when first starting engine
 
Get a Facet fuel pump. https://www.facet-purolator.com/ They usually last the life of the engine. I like the Posi-Flo and Gold Flo pumps. A cheap $20 backup isn't a bad idea though.

krisscross 05-14-2019 12:14 PM

Re: Fuel lifting pump making noise when first starting engine
 
Just bought a replacement pump to have as a spare. Itís a Facet pump. About $85 at NAPA.
Thank you all for your help. As always, very useful. Best sailing forum I know.

olson34 05-16-2019 07:58 PM

Re: Fuel lifting pump making noise when first starting engine
 
A "Facet" brand lift was standard on thousands of Universal diesel engines, and there are very similar brands on the market. They all work the way yours does, and pull fuel thru the Racor and push it on to the engine spin-on filter and thence to the injection pump. Usually about 3.5 to 5. psi. Matter of fact, our former Universal M25XP would run without that pump on warm days.

When first powered up the clicking is faster and then slows down a lot when the pump comes up to pressure.

After replacing our old power train with a new Betamarine (which uses a mechanical lift pump) I kept the little 12 volt cylindrical 'Facet' pump in the fuel system to help pull fuel thru the new Recor after an element change, just like before.

If changing pumps, do some research, as a few of the Walbro pump models have had reported early failures.

SeanM26 05-17-2019 09:45 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by capta (Post 2051601800)
lol Well you see, that's the difference between us marine engineers and you Automotive technicians. Whereas you've got to go buy a replacement, we've got one or two spares stuck away in a drawer somewhere and can make the change before you've got your order into NAPA guy.
Two completely different mentalities; sadly, we don't have a NAPA store out there on the briny. lol

Spent several years as the lead tech on an IMSA team. Also decided to see what Alaska was like as engineer on a fishing boat. Taught me a thing or two about spares. I can build a second car with the parts I have for my daily driver.

hellosailor 05-17-2019 01:51 PM

Re: Fuel lifting pump making noise when first starting engine
 
kriss-
Speaking of fuel lines and bleeding, if your fuel system uses copper crush washers, make sure to pick up a box (dozen) of them. They are used just once and thrown away, so if you find out you've got to bleed the engine, and then bleed it again because it wasn't quite right...you can wind up needing several washers for one incident, and the exact size you need is always out of stock.
If that's old news to you, "Nevermind".


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