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post #11 of 24 Old 09-30-2019
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Re: Diesel Fuel Treatment: Multiple Questions

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Originally Posted by pdqaltair View Post
I was just playin' . Chemistry is my thing, and the advertisers do NOT make it easy to discern facts. It is not in their interest. In fact, a few have actively resisted development of industry standards, which tells you something of their character.

I did a bunch of tests, following a draft ASTM procedure, and some worked, and some didn't. A few made it worse.

In fact, I didn't test STP, since it was not a marine store product, so I don't actually know about that one. I do know that Merc Quick Store and Biobor EB are very good with gas and Starbrite and Valvtect are very good for diesel. But formulations change.

I've got a 12-product trial of gas additives running right now. It will be interesting to see if rankings have changed, since some of them reformulated since the last time I tested them.
Donít suppose you can add STP

Donít worry, I got the chuckle. Chemistry was always a bit too complicated for me. Iím more of a simple physics guy .

But youíre right ó I havenít really done my homework on this stuff, so I really would love some tested guidance. Every year I wonder to my automotive store and stare at the wall of diesel stabilizers. I read the bottles ó I really do. But they all sound the same, so I usually just pick one that is cheap and sounds good.

Like I said, Iíve been winterizing this way for going on 20 years now, and have never had a problem (that I know of) with gunk building up in the tank. I suspect it has something to do with always filling the tank, and also living in a cold climate where stuff doesnít grow very fast over winter. But maybe Iíve just been lucky.

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post #12 of 24 Old 09-30-2019
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Re: Diesel Fuel Treatment: Multiple Questions

I've been using Biobor JF, which could be 10+ years old (came from PO with the boat), at the maintenance dosage. I'm going to get a fresh bottle and up the dosage to "shock" level.

I've also been using Opti-Lube XPD for its lubricity properties. It is not a biocide, although it does have a demulsifier as I mentioned in my prior post.

I used to use Star Brite EZ Stor EZ start detergent additive, but discontinued it when I started using Opti-Lube with the demulsifier because of the old Steven Wright joke:

Quote:
For my birthday I got a humidifier and a de-humidifier... I put them in the same room and let them fight it out.
I would like to add the Star Brite Biodiesel to my cocktail, but can't find it. Hence my prior question to @pdqaltair .

An important part of the whole anti-slime question is fuel management - the old "full vs. empty" question. What I have been doing the past few years is to fill up the tank before winter to avoid condensation, then consume as much as I can during the season before filling up completely again. I have never seen a drop of water in my Racor, so that's a good sign. But I am still seeing some bacterial growth which requires me to replace my Racor annually. I'd like to do better than that, so I'm willing to try something different.

Do any of you continuously top off throughout the season to keep your tank full all the time? That would avoid any head space and minimize sloshing around. Would that reduce biological growth? I'm not sure. I do know that since I consume about a tank every year, the back-mixing that results from continually topping off would mean the fuel would have an average age of 2.7 years. That's why I try to run down my tank throughout the sailing season, so I'm not dumping new fuel on top of old fuel.

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post #13 of 24 Old 09-30-2019
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Re: Diesel Fuel Treatment: Multiple Questions

practical sailor tests fuel treatment products every once in a while with lots of good info. Lots of good info there.

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post #14 of 24 Old 09-30-2019
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Re: Diesel Fuel Treatment: Multiple Questions

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practical sailor tests fuel treatment products every once in a while with lots of good info. Lots of good info there.
I'm aware of that, and am reviewing the updates they've published on this since 2009. I encourage others to subscribe and get access to that information.

FYI, @pdqaltair is the guy who leads their testing programs.

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post #15 of 24 Old 09-30-2019
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Re: Diesel Fuel Treatment: Multiple Questions

I just buy Valvtect fuel. Additives already in it. Look up local marinas that dispense it.


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post #16 of 24 Old 09-30-2019
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Re: Diesel Fuel Treatment: Multiple Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
I've been using Biobor JF, which could be 10+ years old (came from PO with the boat), at the maintenance dosage. I'm going to get a fresh bottle and up the dosage to "shock" level.

I've also been using Opti-Lube XPD for its lubricity properties. It is not a biocide, although it does have a demulsifier as I mentioned in my prior post.

I used to use Star Brite EZ Stor EZ start detergent additive, but discontinued it when I started using Opti-Lube with the demulsifier because of the old Steven Wright joke:



I would like to add the Star Brite Biodiesel to my cocktail, but can't find it. Hence my prior question to @pdqaltair .

An important part of the whole anti-slime question is fuel management - the old "full vs. empty" question. What I have been doing the past few years is to fill up the tank before winter to avoid condensation, then consume as much as I can during the season before filling up completely again. I have never seen a drop of water in my Racor, so that's a good sign. But I am still seeing some bacterial growth which requires me to replace my Racor annually. I'd like to do better than that, so I'm willing to try something different.

Do any of you continuously top off throughout the season to keep your tank full all the time? That would avoid any head space and minimize sloshing around. Would that reduce biological growth? I'm not sure. I do know that since I consume about a tank every year, the back-mixing that results from continually topping off would mean the fuel would have an average age of 2.7 years. That's why I try to run down my tank throughout the sailing season, so I'm not dumping new fuel on top of old fuel.
If I understand correctly, the age of the fuel is not as much of a concern for diesel as it is for gasoline. I got my tank level lower this season than any of the previous years I have owned the boat, and had a filter clog. I think I will keep it topped up better (and figure out how to clean the tank, and get a filter vacuum gauge).

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Re: Diesel Fuel Treatment: Multiple Questions

I use the valvatec additive. Fuel not offered in many places here.

Always filled up during winter storage. Try and keep it over half full. We average 100 gallons a year, but we use our boat a lot. Longer trips sometimes requiring motoring to keep up an average of 5 knots. At 3/4 gallon per hour that averages to approx 135 hrs per heR.

Diesels like to be run. Clean fuel and running the diesel means less worries and less chemical concoctions to keep it stable. I realized that after all the varnish issues I had with a previous 4 stroke outboard. No matter which product I used or which technique, I always wound up with varnish in the carb. Chemicals donít stop or fully protect.

If I only used on tank a year I might consider installing a second small tank.


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post #18 of 24 Old 09-30-2019 Thread Starter
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Lightbulb Re: Diesel Fuel Treatment: Multiple Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdqaltair View Post
What you need for corrosion is an additive that inhibits corrosion. In fact, that has been studied. Biobor won't help.
https://www.practical-sailor.com/iss...s_11083-1.html But really, nearly all water comes in through the deck fill or vent (really--samples nearly always show salt), and the salt is what makes it aggressive. Just a tiny bit.

Regarding dead microbes, if a biocide is used as a preventative, the number will be so small your filters will easily handle it. If you waited until they were clogging the system, no additive can dissolve that much, and would it be a good thing if it could (they will be going through your injectors)? Face it, you need to clean such a tank.
Reading this over, I will go buy some Star Tron Enzyme. Local WM store carries it, and I have a coupon to apply.
Probably not perfect, but it sounds like a good product to try.

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post #19 of 24 Old 09-30-2019
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Re: Diesel Fuel Treatment: Multiple Questions

The full/part full argument is always interesting. I've been a chem E in the refining industry, and arguments go both ways (reduced breathing vs. fresh fuel in the spring). It's not worth the fight. A few things I am sure of:

* Silica gel vent filters help. No water breathing. They REALLY help with e10, because they greatly reduce evaporation as well.
* Run your engine more. Fuel is not meant to last for years. I believe most marine engines die from disuse, not hours. If you are racking up the hours, ignore this bullet and move on.
* Copper and zinc are quite damaging to fuel stability. If you read ASTM and diesel manufacture guidance for standby generators they will say NO copper or zinc. If there is any water, at all, these catalyze sludge formation in diesel and gasoline. Don't believe me, Google it. I've studied this, and so have many others. If you cannot minimize these metals (you probably cannot, then use an anti-corrosion additive (no ions, no sludge).

(some of the standards and OEM recommendations are listed here)
http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/20...breakdown.html

In a glass jar, diesel will last for a decade. Gasoline will last a few years. So consider the reasons they do not last in your tank.

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post #20 of 24 Old 10-01-2019
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Re: Diesel Fuel Treatment: Multiple Questions

I wonder about the effect of additives on the plastics and rubbers in the fuel system.

This year I put Sta-bil 360 Marine in the dinghy Sceptar gas tank. The bit of clear plastic that holds the top of the fuel pickup tube to the bottom of the fuel gauge and fuel outlet assembly swelled up and the pick up tube fell off into the tank stopping the outboard and causing a long row back to the boat. Scepter in an email said that they do not recommend additives.

Again this year based on the advice of another boat owner, I added some FPPF Marine Diesel Fuel Treatment (butyl cellosolve and 2-ethylhexyl nitrate) to my diesel fuel tank along with my usual Biobor JF. Later the high pressure fuel pump developed a leak at one of the outlet valve holders when the o-ring below it failed. While there was a time correspondence, I obviously don't know a cause and effect.

Anyway, are there unintended consequences to adding a non-hydrocarbon to petroleum fuels?

Last edited by wsmurdoch; 10-01-2019 at 06:07 PM. Reason: spelling
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