Universal M-12 in the shop: Offseason proactive attention?? - SailNet Community
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Universal M-12 in the shop: Offseason proactive attention??

Hi everyone,

I had a great 1st season with my new-to-me 1988 Pearson 27. I had constant leaking from the Hurth HBW-50 tranny, and towards the end of the season reverse gear stopped working. I've read all the threads on this tranny and options for rebuild or replace, so I won't rehash that here. At the end of the season (up here in the Northeast), I was looking into removing the bell housing and tranny so I can make it right, but decided to just lift the whole engine out after I saw how easy it was. It's now safely on my shop floor. In addition to the tranny, I can see that the exhaust mixing elbow needs work. Other than that, I planned to clean up rust and repaint in areas.

This is my first diesel engine. While I have the engine in my nice warm shop and lots of time, what else should I proactively consider doing? The engine ran great, started right up every time. I have no idea of hours on the engine nor do I know anything about the service history. Any thoughts on what I should do to increase the likelihood of future trouble-free motoring? Thanks.
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Re: Universal M-12 in the shop: Offseason proactive attention??

New motor mounts and very careful alignment.Drive plate ?
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Last year I replaced my HBW50 with a New Age PRM60D from ASAP Supplies in the UK. It's a near-drop in replacement, the only difference being the shift lever is on the other side and goes the other direction. Both easily corrected for. Mounting bolt pattern and coupler are exactly the same. It uses cone clutches like a Kanzaki (used on Yanmars) and is much more robust and reliable than the Hurth. Beta uses them on some of their models. Cost was around $500 including shipping, less than rebuilding the Hurth which often doesn't work anyway. ASAP also had the drive plate cheaper than anyone else too.
Along with that I would put on new mounts and do the wire harness upgrade of not already done. Lots of posts here and the other forums about that. There's also an alternator bracket upgrade for the larger Universals, I don't know if that applies to the M12 or not. It was not needed on my old M15.
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Re: Universal M-12 in the shop: Offseason proactive attention??

Where was the tranny leaking from: the case halves, the shifter plate? I had a hurth tranny rebuilt years back and it leaked several times, until I finally bought a new one. I presume the shop was using the proper locktite on the case bolts (mine was leaking a the mating surface of the halves). Very frustrating. Consider new, if the leak isn't obvious. Gears are not cheap, but they aren't outrageous either, if you buy direct from ZF/Hurth. Be sure to get the reduction gear ratio correct, most model come in several ratios.

Good to hear the engine is running well. If it was on my shop floor, I'd check compression for the heck of it. Some push back on this, but if I don't know when wearables were last replaced, I much prefer to do them all: hoses, belts, impellers, coolant, oil, filters, clean and pop test injectors. If fresh water cooled, I'd flush and rinse that side and descale the raw water side. You can set up a circulating pump to run rydlyme for a few hours on the raw water side. Alternatively, you can remove the heat exchanger and soak to clean it in rydlyme. Always good to touch up the paint to prevent corrosion too.
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If I could remove my M25, I would: set the valve clearance, pop test injectors, check injector timing, preform a compression and leak down test, and because the engine is canted aft, I would change the oil pan drain to the rear of the sump in the oil pan. Then clean up any rust, wash down with carb. cleaner and apply a fresh coat of the $40 Universal Bronze paint.
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Re: Universal M-12 in the shop: Offseason proactive attention??

GREETINGS EARTHLINGS : While the engine is out replace all the fuel lines doing away with as many joints as possible , remove all the rubber as well clamping as you go keep a flexible area from bulkhead to engine replace the return pipe as well when you can and paint the engine room white cause it will show up all the leaks and spills as soon as it starts now is a fine time to update to led lights in the engine room and make access to the areas for filters and pumps if you need to do you need to add any extra bit to the engine now is the time to do it AS ALWAYS GO SAFE
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Re: Universal M-12 in the shop: Offseason proactive attention??

Clean up the engine room and bilge and paint it so that it looks like a hospital ward.
As for the motor, if it starts first time and runs well, leave it alone, well, apart from touching up the paint.
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Re: Universal M-12 in the shop: Offseason proactive attention??

Thanks for all the great advice everybody.

Regarding the tranny, I've sort of resigned myself to the fact that it's not worth the effort to troubleshoot, rebuild, etc., and that I should just go ahead and replace.

Regarding proactive service for the engine, all great feedback. So far:

motor mounts: Check, will replace
damper plate: Check, I've read in multiple places that this is the right time to do this (while you have the bell housing off)
wire harness upgrade: Check, will do. I still have the "trailer light connectors" which I've read should be eliminated.
remove rust and paint: Will do. Lots of questions about the right way to do this, but I'll research first before I ask stupid questions.
hoses, fuel lines, clamps, etc.: Will probably do some of those that are in bad shape.
moving the oil plan drain: Interesting. Will investigate.
engine room: actually already cleaned up really well, and there is a removable and cleanable plastic tray under the engine that collects fluids (such as all the fluid that went in and out of my tranny this season)
soak/descale the heat exchanger: Good idea.

Regarding comments: Check compression, pop test injectors, check injector timing, and leakdown test. This is where I'm at my knowledge limits. Like I said, my first diesel. Is this within the capabilities of a novice? What can or cannot be done without being able to run the engine?
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Re: Universal M-12 in the shop: Offseason proactive attention??

Quote:
Originally Posted by capt jgwinks View Post
Last year I replaced my HBW50 with a New Age PRM60D from ASAP Supplies in the UK. It's a near-drop in replacement, the only difference being the shift lever is on the other side and goes the other direction. Both easily corrected for. Mounting bolt pattern and coupler are exactly the same. It uses cone clutches like a Kanzaki (used on Yanmars) and is much more robust and reliable than the Hurth. Beta uses them on some of their models. Cost was around $500 including shipping, less than rebuilding the Hurth which often doesn't work anyway. ASAP also had the drive plate cheaper than anyone else too.
Along with that I would put on new mounts and do the wire harness upgrade of not already done. Lots of posts here and the other forums about that. There's also an alternator bracket upgrade for the larger Universals, I don't know if that applies to the M12 or not. It was not needed on my old M15.
Yes, I'd heard that this is a good option for an HBW50 replacement. It looks like it's $650 (504 GBP) now. Regarding the plate, the Universal part number for my plate is 299156. Will ASAP have this part number, or will they have an alternative that works for my M12? This is all new to me and I know I have lots of learning and research to do.
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Re: Universal M-12 in the shop: Offseason proactive attention??

Quote:
Originally Posted by w7thmark View Post
....hoses, fuel lines, clamps, etc.: Will probably do some of those that are in bad shape.
Up to you. These items have service lives and they don't always look bad at the limits. Beware of folks with anecdotal stories of perpetual lifespans. If you're the kind of person who rather replace upon failure and can live with those consequences, that's the Captain's call. Not the way my maintenance log works.

Quote:
Regarding comments: Check compression, pop test injectors, check injector timing, and leakdown test. This is where I'm at my knowledge limits. Like I said, my first diesel. Is this within the capabilities of a novice? What can or cannot be done without being able to run the engine?
R&R the injectors is not all that tough, but you'll want the service manual, so you know the proper torque specs on install. You also want to know if you need a tool that keeps the injector sleeve (if you have one) inside the head, while you pull the injector. You can certainly buy the tools to do the pop test, but I'd just bring them to a diesel shop to have them tested/cleaned/rebuilt. In some cases, you can even trade them in for new for a reasonable cost.

Engine compression isn't all that hard, nor are the tool cost prohibitive. That one is up to you. Injector timing is a bit more advanced.
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