Comparing diesel vrs electric propulsion(DIY/Production) in terms of resell value - SailNet Community
 63Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 150 Old 01-29-2016 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 103
Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 4
 
Comparing diesel vrs electric propulsion(DIY/Production) in terms of resell value

Hey everyone!

So I'm curious, electric propulsion systems in sailboats are becoming more viable and used these days.

The cost of a off-the-shelf package for an electric system is very expensive, yet price comparable to a diesel engine.

What is everyone's opinion for sailboats that operate pure electric propulsion vrs diesel? What about DIY electric propulsion(given it's setup correctly).

Does electric production based systems increase the boat value more so than diesel? What about DIY ones?

We all know that generally a gas engine will decrease the value of the boat vrs diesel, but lets compare what the value of one is when comparing diesel and electric
chowdan is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to chowdan For This Useful Post:
BillMoran (12-27-2016)
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 150 Old 01-29-2016
al brazzi
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Lower Chesapeake bay
Posts: 1,978
Thanks: 0
Thanked 79 Times in 79 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Comparing diesel vrs electric propulsion(DIY/Production) in terms of resell value

No matter what advances this will remain a niche market for sailing.
albrazzi is online now  
post #3 of 150 Old 01-29-2016
Senior Member
 
Faster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 19,488
Thanks: 160
Thanked 587 Times in 558 Posts
Rep Power: 16
     
Re: Comparing diesel vrs electric propulsion(DIY/Production) in terms of resell value

Seems to me electric propulsion will continue to be relatively limited range so it would depend on the local area and the intended usage. In areas where simply daysailing is the norm and power is needed only to leave the marina and return to your berth at the end of the day, it makes perfect sense. If you have an hour or 3 in reserve to get back home in case the wind dies, then good.

But for the type of sailing we do, and most do in the PNW the distances can be long, tides can be strong and many boats cruise extensively, esp in summer season known for generally light winds. I suspect it would be difficult to rely on electric, however tempting it must be. The idea of 'silent' power is appealing indeed.

There's a repowered (electric) Ericson 34 in town here, we've followed her out into the bay a time or two.. I don't know if they are very laid back, or if they are doing the best they can but I've never seen that boat motor at over 3-4 knots.

Overall I don't see it as a value enhancer yet. We do have a member here who uses Epower, hopefully they'll weigh in.
kd3pc likes this.

Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
Faster is offline  
 
post #4 of 150 Old 01-29-2016
Senior Member
 
misfits's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: NH
Posts: 659
Thanks: 2
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Re: Comparing diesel vrs electric propulsion(DIY/Production) in terms of resell value

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster View Post
I don't know if they are very laid back, or if they are doing the best they can but I've never seen that boat motor at over 3-4 knots.
That's because @ 3-4 knots you're getting the most bang out of the battery bank without depleting it/going below the DOD based upon what you've got for batteries. EP boats can do hull speed but not for very long. As the speed increases so doesn't the amperage draw.

I think most folks that go EP are sailors that sail. They plan their exits & entries around the tides so they can use them to their advantage instead of fighting them. That's my take on it.

I'm not happy unless I'm complaining about something.
I'm having a very good day!
misfits is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to misfits For This Useful Post:
BillMoran (12-27-2016)
post #5 of 150 Old 01-30-2016 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 103
Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 4
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster View Post
Seems to me electric propulsion will continue to be relatively limited range so it would depend on the local area and the intended usage. In areas where simply daysailing is the norm and power is needed only to leave the marina and return to your berth at the end of the day, it makes perfect sense. If you have an hour or 3 in reserve to get back home in case the wind dies, then good.

But for the type of sailing we do, and most do in the PNW the distances can be long, tides can be strong and many boats cruise extensively, esp in summer season known for generally light winds. I suspect it would be difficult to rely on electric, however tempting it must be. The idea of 'silent' power is appealing indeed.

There's a repowered (electric) Ericson 34 in town here, we've followed her out into the bay a time or two.. I don't know if they are very laid back, or if they are doing the best they can but I've never seen that boat motor at over 3-4 knots.

Overall I don't see it as a value enhancer yet. We do have a member here who uses Epower, hopefully they'll weigh in.
I'd like to hear and experience a boat on an epower system.

I remember seeing the Ericson 34 on craigslist a I was boat searching. I wasn't 'drawn' towards the boat due to the electric.

Now that I've gone through it and fully gotten a bigger grasp of it, I do wish I could have gone and seen it.

I have always thought range was a limiting factor, however if your using electric in a offshore passage, carrying a small generator to supply charge is only needed to dramatically increase your range. Ive read that you actually get better fuel efficiency when operating this way.
Beav222 likes this.
chowdan is offline  
post #6 of 150 Old 01-30-2016
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Northeast U.S
Posts: 1,913
Thanks: 5
Thanked 74 Times in 71 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Comparing diesel vrs electric propulsion(DIY/Production) in terms of resell value

Quote:
Originally Posted by misfits View Post
That's because @ 3-4 knots you're getting the most bang out of the battery bank without depleting it/going below the DOD based upon what you've got for batteries. EP boats can do hull speed but not for very long. As the speed increases so doesn't the amperage draw.

I think most folks that go EP are sailors that sail. They plan their exits & entries around the tides so they can use them to their advantage instead of fighting them. That's my take on it.
Exactly and it's a quiet 3 or 4 knots. My 16,000 lb 30 footer would do 5 knots with the diesel and it was a very noisy 5 knots. So four knots is not much of a trade off to still have a pleasant quiet day on the water wind or no wind and maximize battery use. Even if I have to start up the Honda and go into hybrid mode it is still quieter than the old diesel. Which can be a selling point too!
PopeyeRideau and Beav222 like this.

Mike
Currently: Enjoying Summer's sailing season

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
mbianka is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to mbianka For This Useful Post:
BillMoran (12-27-2016)
post #7 of 150 Old 01-30-2016
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Northeast U.S
Posts: 1,913
Thanks: 5
Thanked 74 Times in 71 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Comparing diesel vrs electric propulsion(DIY/Production) in terms of resell value

Since I have not felt the need to look at another boat since I bought my Nonsuch 30 in 1995. I have even less desire to now that I have EP. I expect my estate will end up selling the boat at some point. That said another selling point would be to open up the bilge and engine area. It is very easy to sell the smell of clean on an EP boat. Harder to get rid of the smell of oil and diesel on boats with an ICE. It should be easy to sell the smell of clean especially when the wife is on board and has to give the nod to the purchase.

Mike
Currently: Enjoying Summer's sailing season

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
mbianka is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to mbianka For This Useful Post:
BillMoran (12-27-2016)
post #8 of 150 Old 01-30-2016
al brazzi
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Lower Chesapeake bay
Posts: 1,978
Thanks: 0
Thanked 79 Times in 79 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Comparing diesel vrs electric propulsion(DIY/Production) in terms of resell value

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbianka View Post
Since I have not felt the need to look at another boat since I bought my Nonsuch 30 in 1995. I have even less desire to now that I have EP. I expect my estate will end up selling the boat at some point. That said another selling point would be to open up the bilge and engine area. It is very easy to sell the smell of clean on an EP boat. Harder to get rid of the smell of oil and diesel on boats with an ICE. It should be easy to sell the smell of clean especially when the wife is on board and has to give the nod to the purchase.
The odor issue is all over the place, I get more head odors than Diesel. On a newer Glass boat with a proper drip pan that's clean enough to eat off of and fresh paint on the engine, new fuel lines etc. but that would be a hijack. Old Boats, forget about wood and its un manageable. The noise comments are right on point. I think it was Hunter or Catalina who produced a Keel that was a replaceable Battery if its going to catch on it needs to be this, when tried last it didn't take. To run a Gen to refill Batteries will never sustain the system, every time energy is converted some is lost and efficiency goes out the door and the time quotient 10 hrs to refill a 2-4 hr charge if that.
albrazzi is online now  
post #9 of 150 Old 01-30-2016
Senior Member
 
krisscross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 4,086
Thanks: 40
Thanked 219 Times in 218 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Re: Comparing diesel vrs electric propulsion(DIY/Production) in terms of resell value

I have been wondering about durability of electric power systems. A well tended diesel engine can last 50 years in a sailboat. Can the same be said about an electric power system? If not, that certainly does not add value to the boat the same way diesel engine does.

Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
Plato
krisscross is online now  
post #10 of 150 Old 01-30-2016
al brazzi
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Lower Chesapeake bay
Posts: 1,978
Thanks: 0
Thanked 79 Times in 79 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Comparing diesel vrs electric propulsion(DIY/Production) in terms of resell value

Many comments same niche. For a daysailor of any size I see the attraction. Without the Keel Battery I don't see it working on larger longer distance cruisers. When a manageable Battery system can keep up with a cruiser in the 35-40 ft range with 200 gals of Diesel on board then there's progress. Battery technologies are growing everyday. Solar panels in your cruising laminate?
albrazzi is online now  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Electric Propulsion, Anyone Using It? stovebolt Electric/Hybrid 81 10-30-2015 01:20 AM
islander 36 electric propulsion christian.hess Islander 2 10-21-2013 11:47 AM
Electric Propulsion. GufShoz Introduce Yourself 5 04-08-2012 06:15 PM
Electric propulsion scrumhalf Gear & Maintenance 3 05-01-2008 05:55 PM
Electric Propulsion vardaman77 Gear & Maintenance 5 08-05-2007 07:09 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome