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post #21 of 49 Old 06-09-2015
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Re: Wire replacement and wire nuts

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Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post
The crimper you linked to is for battery cables, not the smaller gauge wires being discussed.

A proper single or double ratchet crimper sells for about 50 or 60 dollars. A good investment for anyone re-wiring on a boat. A proper crimp either with heat shrink terminals or with heat shrink added after will last even underwater for many years. Water will not enter the covering on good tinned boat cable.

Any observant surveyor would ask that your type of connection be removed.
That's what I thought as well but, if you notice, the one I posted goes all the way down to a #12 wire, not just for battery cables. I've seen similar that will do #14 which covers most of the small wiring on a boat. I was surprised that a 6 ton hydraulic crimper could be had for so cheap. I remember them being much more expensive. An actual pressed connection has got to better than a ratchet-crimped connection as it fuses the metals, no? 6 tons is 6 tons. Having one of these would also be good for the battery cables. My opinion on the entire "boat surveyor" issue is another topic:-)

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post #22 of 49 Old 06-09-2015 Thread Starter
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Re: Wire replacement and wire nuts

This is the crimper I will be buying. Why do you all need ratcheting crimpers? Are you all old and frail?
5-1/2 in. Stainless Steel Crimper-C55SMC - The Home Depot


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post #23 of 49 Old 06-09-2015
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Re: Wire replacement and wire nuts

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Originally Posted by UnionPacific View Post
This is the crimper I will be buying. Why do you all need ratcheting crimpers? Are you all old and frail?
5-1/2 in. Stainless Steel Crimper-C55SMC - The Home Depot
I think the difference is between whether the two metals actually fuse together as one which happens with multi-ton crimpers. Looking at cross sections of hydraulic crimped connectors, the wire strands actually disappear and fuse together.

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post #24 of 49 Old 06-09-2015
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Re: Wire replacement and wire nuts

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Originally Posted by UnionPacific View Post
This is the crimper I will be buying. Why do you all need ratcheting crimpers? Are you all old and frail?
5-1/2 in. Stainless Steel Crimper-C55SMC - The Home Depot
no, but we want a proper crimp which that crimper is not capable of.

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post #25 of 49 Old 06-09-2015
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Re: Wire replacement and wire nuts

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Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
An actual pressed connection has got to better than a ratchet-crimped connection as it fuses the metals, no? 6 tons is 6 tons. Having one of these would also be good for the battery cables.
it makes no difference the force as long as there is enough to do the job. Crimpers compress to a size so if the crimper uses 6 tons or 60 lbs of pressure it makes no difference. The shape of the dies is most critical for a proper crimp. Smaller crimpers are handy when in a tight space such as behind a panel.

As for quality you most often get what you pay for.

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post #26 of 49 Old 06-09-2015
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Re: Wire replacement and wire nuts

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The old 12 gauge wire only has about 6-8 strands in it. As electrons only travel on the outside of the individual wire strands the new smaller wire with 100 stands will actually carry more power with less loss and resistance, even if a size smaller.
??????

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post #27 of 49 Old 06-09-2015
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Re: Wire replacement and wire nuts

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Originally Posted by UnionPacific View Post
The old 12 gauge wire only has about 6-8 strands in it. As electrons only travel on the outside of the individual wire strands the new smaller wire with 100 stands will actually carry more power with less loss and resistance, even if a size smaller.

Sorry, you misunderstood something you read. What you are talking about is the skin effect which does exist but only at high frequencies (RF). For your power cables, the electrons don't care a bit about surface or not surface, resistance is entirely determined by cross section.

So if you have one strand or a thousand, the current carrying capacity is entirely the same for the same cable thickness (for the sticklers to detail: sum of cross sections of strands)
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post #28 of 49 Old 06-09-2015
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Re: Wire replacement and wire nuts

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Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post
it makes no difference the force as long as there is enough to do the job. Crimpers compress to a size so if the crimper uses 6 tons or 60 lbs of pressure it makes no difference. The shape of the dies is most critical for a proper crimp. Smaller crimpers are handy when in a tight space such as behind a panel.

As for quality you most often get what you pay for.
Of course, it makes a huge difference in the amount of force. It's the difference between a molecular bond and a typical automotive "squeezed" connection. This may be of little significance on 14 ga. wire but on large 0 sizes it is imperative to get a molecular bond which cannot be achieved (or even attempted) with a common squeeze type crimper. It's comparing apples and grapes.

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Re: Wire replacement and wire nuts

smurph-
Apparently that crimper is one of the many fine products that are made in China to metric standards. Note that all the dies are metric (mm*2) sized with an "equivalent" to AWG sizes. Well, neither SAE nor AWG matches metric sizes, so those dies will be wrong pretty much all the time, here in the Colonies. Maybe "good enough" but still, an uncertainty.

"Tape is not going to keep anything dry in a bilge." self-amalgamating tape, not electrical tape, not rubber tape, but butyl or silicone self-amalgamating tape, does a damn fine job, even underwater, as long as you apply it properly to CLEAN insulation and give it 48 hours to set up and fuse together. It turns into one lump, pretty much like a stubborn oyster. I'd still rather see no splices in the bilge, but sometimes, a pump only comes with 6" leads when you need a good two feet.

I think I've seen every type of splice (wire nut, crimp, solder) fail when poorly made, and last for decades when done right. The number of contradictory industry and field practices out there might tend to suggest some truth behind that.

The URL to "NASA" splices and the Western Union Splice? Someone has been rewriting history. Before there was an internet, a "WU splice" was always described as a splice in twin wires, made without insulation or electrical tape, which wasn't to be had in the frontier 1800's. The lineman would cut and splice one wire "here" and offset the other wire "there" so that the BARE SPLICES could not touch and short each other out. The remaining insulation on each wire was all that separated them. THAT was a Western Union splice, and Telco lineman still used them if there was no way to insulate your work. The offset splices, not the style of wire twisting, was what made it a WU splice. FWIW.

Last edited by hellosailor; 06-09-2015 at 02:21 PM.
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post #30 of 49 Old 06-09-2015
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Re: Wire replacement and wire nuts

Quote:
Originally Posted by UnionPacific View Post
This is the crimper I will be buying. Why do you all need ratcheting crimpers? Are you all old and frail?
5-1/2 in. Stainless Steel Crimper-C55SMC - The Home Depot
I worked on my company's production floor for many years many years ago. When ISO standards became the next 'big thing' all of our plier type crimpers were removed and we all got the ratchet type.

I crimped a ring lug to a wire with the old style crimpers; tie wrapped the ring to a support post; wrapped the wire around my hand a few times and yanked; the wire came cleanly out of the ring lug.

Same steps with the ratchet type - hurt my hand; wrap the wire around a tool and yank really hard - deformed the ring and broke the tie wrap. The crimp held.

I would only use the plier type to get back to shore where I keep my 'proper' crimper.
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