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post #51 of 75 Old 01-23-2019
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Re: Connectors-Marine use?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eherlihy View Post
I will contribute my $0.02, and leave because this will devolve into a crimping vs soldering debate, and that has already been hashed TO DEATH. See https://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-...soldering.html https://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-...vs-solder.html
https://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-...nnections.html
https://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-...ilge-pump.html
...

One issue with using these connectors is that by soldering the wires you are, in effect, creating a single strand wire. Single strand wire is inappropriate for use in environments where vibration is a concern (like on a boat), because such wire is relatively inflexible and could break with repeated bending.

However, it's your boat; do what you will and deal with the consequences.
I hear you.

I am obligated to ensure the connections I make on customer boats are ABYC compliant.

I agree with the ABYC standards poo pooing soldered connections, because their integrity is so dependant on operator skill.

Anyone can botch a crimped connection, but it is many times less likely to happen if quality ratcheting crimpers, designed for use with that specific crimp connector, are used.

But even the crimp / crimper manufacturers state that the crimp connection "cold molds" the strands within the crimp (essentially making it a solid conductor).

Many years ago, I demonstrated to an AECL inspector (much to his surprise and chagrin), that I can consistently make a soldered wire splice that is much stronger than a crimp connection (the latter that meets standards for use in electrical panels controlling nuclear power stations).

My recommendation - Always follow applicable marine electrical standards (ABYC and NMEA in North America).

In doing so, treat a crimped connection exactly as one would a non-compliant soldered connection...

1. Apply a pull test to every connection of recommended tensile force (independent of heat shrink).

2. Apply sealant to avoid moisture contact with the conductors.

3. Apply heatshrink as a reliable protective dielectric insulation over the conductors and extending at least 5 diameters beyond the ends of the insulation.

4. Provide strain relief to both ends of the connection.

5. Secure cables per standards and best practice.

In my opinion, relying on heat shrink for a good portion of the tensile strength (as in the case of the subject connectors) is just asking for trouble, in the form of broken connections inside the insulation.
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Last edited by boatsurgeon; 01-23-2019 at 01:25 PM.
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post #52 of 75 Old 01-23-2019
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Re: Connectors-Marine use?

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I've always thought that the vibration issue was always more about work hardening of the wires, leading to brittleness and, eventually, breakage underneath the insulation. Low level vibrations or manual manipulation, over a long time, can cause this without the connections failing in a visible way.
Even a weak attempt at securing the wires around a connection will eliminate any vibration in most cases.

I'm with Don at wondering how many of you have boats that are constantly flexing and shaking your teeth out.

We have PVC head plumbing and solid pipe water plumbing on a catamaran with 50-80' runs of plumbing and wiring, and have never had an issue with flexing or vibration causing failures.

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post #53 of 75 Old 01-23-2019
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Re: Connectors-Marine use?

<*sigh*>

Because I received notification that I was quoted, I'm back. I will only that Adhesive-Lined Heat Shrink Crimp Connectors and a $35 ratcheting crimp tool designed for these connectors, and a butane torch to seal the connector after crimping is the ONLY way that I will splice or terminate wires on a boat.

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post #54 of 75 Old 01-23-2019
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Re: Connectors-Marine use?

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Originally Posted by eherlihy View Post
<*sigh*>

Because I received notification that I was quoted, I'm back. I will only that Adhesive-Lined Heat Shrink Crimp Connectors and a $35 ratcheting crimp tool designed for these connectors, and a butane torch to seal the connector after crimping is the ONLY way that I will splice or terminate wires on a boat.
That's pretty narrow and constraining. So if I have a $40 ratcheting crimper and using a heat gun for sealing the connectors, I should just give it up?

BTW, it sounds like you don't have any very small or very large wires on your boat. Most of our signal wires, LED wires, and battery cables require different approaches than yours. I love the Scotchloks for signal wires.

Mark


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post #55 of 75 Old 01-23-2019
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Re: Connectors-Marine use?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
I've always thought that the vibration issue was always more about work hardening of the wires, leading to brittleness and, eventually, breakage underneath the insulation. Low level vibrations or manual manipulation, over a long time, can cause this without the connections failing in a visible way.
Much much much more likely that the connections will corrode. But there isn't a requirement to always use heat shrink etc. to seal them.

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post #56 of 75 Old 01-23-2019
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Re: Connectors-Marine use?

Emphatic statements crack me up.

Not long ago I installed AC on my boat. I used crimps for most things, but with only a few exceptions, adhesive lined heat shrinks would have felt silly connecting to non-water resistant gear, like breakers, thermostats, and contractors. And what about all the DIN rail stuff? I wonder if a flock of heavy crimps would have been any improvement over what Colemj just posted; they would have mad it heavier and far more difficult to troubleshoot later. I wonder if a wire might be more likely to break. What's more, there is nothing in the code requiring universal sealing. And what about all the DIN rail stuff?

Common sense. You need a good connection, reasonable mechanical strength, and the materials should be corrosion resistant. That is what ABYC says.

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Re: Connectors-Marine use?

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....
Common sense....
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post #58 of 75 Old 01-25-2019
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Re: Connectors-Marine use?

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Originally Posted by eherlihy View Post
.....a butane torch to seal the connector after crimping is the ONLY way .....
I switched to a heat gun years ago. Cleaner, no scorching, easier and safer. I still have my old small torch, in the event I didn't have 110 power to run the heat gun, but it's never been needed since. The heat gun has been handy for several other things, particularly softening hoses for removal. It lives aboard now.
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Re: Connectors-Marine use?

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I switched to a heat gun years ago. Cleaner, no scorching, easier and safer. I still have my old small torch, in the event I didn't have 110 power to run the heat gun, but it's never been needed since. The heat gun has been handy for several other things, particularly softening hoses for removal. It lives aboard now.
A heat gun has also joined my list of must have tools on the boat, especially for working with hoses.
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post #60 of 75 Old 01-25-2019
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Re: Connectors-Marine use?

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Originally Posted by eherlihy View Post
and a butane torch to seal the connector after crimping is the ONLY way that I will splice or terminate wires on a boat.
If I catch my guys using direct flame on heat shrink connectors they had better damn well have a very, very good excuse as to why. We do thousands of HS crimps each year and 99.9% are done with a heat gun. More even adhesion, more even melt, no bubbles, no hot spots, no blisters, no pockets and consistently repeatable and predictable. Flame can be used for an emergency but it is very easy to ruin an expensive terminal using a torch. Flame melted HS terminals is one of the biggest failure points I see. The other one is using the wrong crimp tooling.
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