ICM203 on break for boat HVAC unit - Page 2 - SailNet Community
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post #11 of 26 Old 02-02-2019 Thread Starter
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Re: ICM203 on break for boat HVAC unit

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Originally Posted by SchockT View Post
So the problem you are having is that the compressor does not have enough starting torque to restart until pressures in the system equalize. This is not an uncommon problem on small single phase compressors of that type. Certainly an asc timer isnt a bad idea, but if you already have that, another minute of delay is not likely to solve the problem.
Hi,
We have tested the unit and are using the unit. Every time that we start the unit up it works. Every time it starts on cycle after 6 min it works.
Only before 6 min does it blow the breaker.
The problem for us is that we can not leave it on when leaving the boat at the dock and come back to a cool boat. It will blow the breaker and that worries us and the boat gets hot.
If we set a timer for six minutes when the HVAC shuts off then when we restart it when the 6 min timer goes off it works every time. If before 6 min it blows the breaker.
So a automatic six min timer would work great, at least for now.
So ICM203 will do the trick and back to the original question.
What can we get for the two other components for the ICM203 on delay?
We have sent a message to Mermaid for freon pressures. We will have the High and low pressure tested again.
Thanks,
Chip
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post #12 of 26 Old 02-02-2019
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Re: ICM203 on break for boat HVAC unit

Personally, I think figuring out the problem would be advisable rather than finding a workaround and then leaving the system to run when you are off the boat.
It may just be me, but considering the amount of water most marine A/C units move through them, I have never left the system running when no one is aboard, at the dock or at anchor. I'd much rather return to a hot boat than a sunken one! Not to mention leaving a genset running when you are gone. I personally saw a Honda genset blow up when no one was aboard. The oil ran out onto the deck and the safety circuit apparently failed. Hot metal flying everywhere; he's lucky he didn't lose the boat.
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post #13 of 26 Old 02-02-2019
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Re: ICM203 on break for boat HVAC unit

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Hi,

We have tested the unit and are using the unit. Every time that we start the unit up it works. Every time it starts on cycle after 6 min it works.

Only before 6 min does it blow the breaker.

The problem for us is that we can not leave it on when leaving the boat at the dock and come back to a cool boat. It will blow the breaker and that worries us and the boat gets hot.

If we set a timer for six minutes when the HVAC shuts off then when we restart it when the 6 min timer goes off it works every time. If before 6 min it blows the breaker.

So a automatic six min timer would work great, at least for now.

So ICM203 will do the trick and back to the original question.

What can we get for the two other components for the ICM203 on delay?

We have sent a message to Mermaid for freon pressures. We will have the High and low pressure tested again.

Thanks,

Chip
Ok, your ICM timer can operate with a voltage range between 24vac and 240vac so you dont need a transformer. You can power it from the "compressor run" terminal on your controller.

You will need a relay or contactor with a coil voltage that matches your line voltage, I am guessing 115v. The contact rating should be higher than the FLA rating of your compressor: 15a will work, but i higher amp rating will last longer. You could use a "Definite Purpose Contactor" but they are big, bulky and noisy when they pull in. You will have to go to an HVAC supply house to get one.

You should be able to use a general purpose relay which would be much more compact, and you will be able to find one at any electrical supply house.

You are looking for a single pole single throw (spst) 15a relay with a 115v coil. Choose the style that best fits inside your electrical box.

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Re: ICM203 on break for boat HVAC unit

You should be able to series a new timer in the signal wire from the 5 minute timer to increase the time before startup or add a second 5 minute timer. have the thermo stat signal fire the first timer which after it times out it fires the second timer to start the compressor

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Re: ICM203 on break for boat HVAC unit

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You should be able to series a new timer in the signal wire from the 5 minute timer to increase the time before startup or add a second 5 minute timer. have the thermo stat signal fire the first timer which after it times out it fires the second timer to start the compressor
It would be that simple if the op had a system with a conventional thermostat that uses 24vac, but the manual he posted is for an electronic control panel, so it doesnt have the usual thermostat wiring, just a communication cable. All the switching is done on a circuit board.

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Re: ICM203 on break for boat HVAC unit

if you use a separate contractor and transformer then use the same model contactor that is used on the non electronic thermostat model
I would use a solid state relay to control the compressor. most likely whats on the electronic circuit board. they even have them with built in timers to do just what you want it to do, delay the motor start.
No need tor the transformer just run the timer and contractor om 110 volts AC

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Re: ICM203 on break for boat HVAC unit

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BTW, you say you measured "voltage" at 9.3, that must be the amperage. Voltage should be around 115v.

Compresor.

Yes it was amps.
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Chip
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Re: ICM203 on break for boat HVAC unit

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Personally, I think figuring out the problem would be advisable rather than finding a workaround and then leaving the system to run when you are off the boat.
It may just be me, but considering the amount of water most marine A/C units move through them, I have never left the system running when no one is aboard, at the dock or at anchor.
We have tried for over a year with no luck. So for now we want it to work and we will keep trying to figure it out.
We only run the HVAC when we are at a marina and then leave the boat. Never at anchor. We would only run the HVAC unit while we were on the boat at anchor.
As for water we have two bilge pumps that can easily handle the HVAC water in any case.
We have no problem leaving the boat while at the marina and leaving the AC on. In Fact it has an away mode to keep the bot dehumidified if you wish while you are away.
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Re: ICM203 on break for boat HVAC unit

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Originally Posted by overbored View Post
I would use a solid state relay to control the compressor. most likely whats on the electronic circuit board. they even have them with built in timers to do just what you want it to do, delay the motor start.
No need tor the transformer just run the timer and contractor om 110 volts AC
I have been reading up on these but still am a little lost. Have not seen one with a timmer.


This is where the compressor is wired in the electrical box. So if we could add a timer here then set it at one min as it is being delayed by five min already then that would work?



Thanks,
Chip
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Re: ICM203 on break for boat HVAC unit

I agree, if you can find a solid state relay rated for 15a, with a 115v trigger voltage, that would be better, albeit more expensive, and harder to find. From looking at the control board schematic, it looks like they are using a simple PCB mounted mechanical relay, so there is no reason an appropriate sized general purpose relay wont work just fine.

While the anti short cycle time delay may resolve the problem, I am still interested in the root cause of the problem. While it is not uncommon for single phase compressors to have trouble restarting before they equalize, they usually cut out on their own overload device before they trip the circuit breaker. There are a number of other things to consider.

What is the breaker size, and what is the total load on the breaker? The manual for the 12mbh unit says RLA for the compressor is 9.4, and it also says to allow another 3.5a for pumps. That is still fine on a 15a breaker IF that is the true total load. Measure amps at the breaker, not the compressor to be sure.

I asked you what your voltage is, and you responded with an amperage number, and I see you made the same mistake in your blog. You need to understand the difference, and how they relate. Voltage and amperage have an inverse relationship. Your compressor may draw 9.5a at 115v, but if your generator is only putting out 95v, your amp draw will be higher. When you measure your voltage, measure it under load. If a power supply is struggling to handle a load, its voltage may drop when the compressor is on, even though the open circuit voltage looks good.

Your breaker may be borderline under sized. Circuit breakers work by heating up, so if you are pulling near maximum amperage through the breaker, it will be hot internally. If you then subject it to in rush current of the compressor restarting before it has a chance to cool down it could trip. Remember though, a breaker's role is not to protect your equipment, it is to protect the conductors of the feeder circuit, so you cannot upgrade the breaker's amp rating unless the wires are rated to handle that current.

Given that your unit was recently repaired by the factory, there is probably no problem with it, however if it is running high head pressure due to poor water flow in the heat exchanger, amp draw will go up. Without gauges you can't know what your head pressure is, but you can get a good idea by measuring the temperature of the refrigerant liquid line coming out of the heat exchanger. The refrigerant should go in hot, and come out cool, or slightly warm.

I also noticed that in your blog it looked like you disconnected the start capacitor. If that is the case, you should reconnect it. I didnt see anything in the EasyStart instructions that told you to disconnect it, but maybe I missed something.

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