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Old 04-15-2019
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Re: Realistic expectations for my house batteries

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That's all true, but for heavy stuff like tankage and batteries, as a general rule lower the better.

A keel **could** be designed with a space for banks and tanks to get "slotted in" just above its ballast lead.

With modules of compensating blocks attached in those spaces while the weight design is kept "as stock", to be removed as the aftermarket weight is installed there in its place.

Routing channels for a "lowest points" collection plumbing for bilge pumps, combined with third-party designs for low-profile "waterproof" battery modules, intra-bank connection terminations at busses just under removable plates at or above the sole level. . .
Now we're talking...
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Old 04-15-2019
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Re: Realistic expectations for my house batteries

A 360Ah CALB LFP bank (actual capacity at least 400Ah) for $1840: electriccarpartscompany.com

I won't even try to find a less expensive BMS, at the same place you will find the Orion BMS for $480. This is a well-regarded one, but there are definitely less expensive just as good ones. Why you discount anything Chinese made is beyond me.

So, a LFP bank total cost $2278

The equivalent capacity in LA is 660Ah. Six Lifeline AGM 220Ah 6V batteries cost $2460 - you can find them on Amazon, and many, many other places for about the same price.

Right there, an LFP bank is cheaper than a lead bank, but let's make the cost equal because there will still be some small bits and bobs to connecting up the LFP bank - and I am ignoring that those are mostly the same things needed to connect up a LA bank.

You can go with Sam's Club flooded GC batteries. Those will cost you $600 for an equivalent capacity. But I think that is really comparing apples and oranges - or simply picking and choosing to make a point.

Even if you do go with cheap flooded batteries, the cost differential is less than 4x - not 7x.

And if you choose Trojan T105's like registered's example, you will pay $1000, which turns out to be very close to 1/2 the cost of an LFP bank - like he said it was.

Mark

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Old 04-15-2019
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Re: Realistic expectations for my house batteries

I have had dealings with Carl at electric car parts company. He's knowledgeable, but a one man show, so the quality of customer service depends on his personality alone, just let that be all I say.



You will not get a free extra 10% from CALB best I've seen is 4% so far.

The lead equivalent to 360Ah LFP is 225, in Deka currently under $215 including my cost to pickup, just down the road.

Seven times that is under $1500.

Factor in the extra delivery charges and the BMS as well.

Of course you can find more expensive lead batteries, but that's just obfuscation, the Deka FLA will last just as long as Lifeline, and who orders those on Amazon anyway?

And then all the other infrastructure conversion expenses. . .
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Youve been running this same exercise for 2 years or so.
What has changed?
...not much of anything...
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Re: Realistic expectations for my house batteries

John, you haven't seen squat because you don't actually have a LFP bank, and have never bought or handled prismatic LFP's. Nor a boat. Frankly, you have zero actual experience with LFP usage on a boat. Zero. Nada. Prove me wrong.

I just ordered CALB batteries from that company I listed. They were delivered within a few days, and it was across country. The 180Ah cells came with the factory test sheet showing that they had tested capacities of 208.9Ah-210Ah. I balanced them, charged them, and did a capacity test, and I came up with 208Ah. So there you are - you have seen CALB cells with over 10% capacity above the rating. I have spoken to CALB about this, and their answer was all of their 180Ah cells are designed for 200Ah, but they find it better to label them as 180Ah because they have more leeway for manufacturing variance. FWIW, shipping was $150, but it could have been free if I lived down the road from either their Utah or California businesses.

But besides that you find them wanting in customer interaction, simply price CALB cells anywhere else - they are all the same price.

The lead equivalent capacity to 360Ah LFP is approx. 660Ah, not 225Ah, as you state. If the 225Ah was a simple mistake on your part, then I call BS on you getting 660Ah of any battery for under $215. I don't know which "Deka" you are referring to, but if it is a cheap flooded battery, then you are playing the variables to make your point. Also with picking them up in person. Not everyone lives next to a battery distributor. Not everyone can handle FLA on their boat, and AGM or Gel is a much better comparison to LFP for many reasons.

Like I said, the Lifeline batteries are sold in many, many places, and have similar prices. Pick your favorite outside of Amazon and run the numbers again.

John, you are simply speaking out of your rear here. You seem to be on every RV and boating forum spouting knowledge about LFP batteries, dropping industry names, intimating personal relationships that don't exist, and telling everyone how wrong they are about LFP. In the forums you have not yet been run out of, people keep asking you to describe your LFP batteries and your boat/RV. So far, nothing but crickets out of you.

Prove me wrong.

Mark
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Re: Realistic expectations for my house batteries

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Originally Posted by makobuilders View Post
And that's probably the most realistic attitude!

There are some on these threads who have the budget and inclination to install the best of everything on their boats. Then there was one guy I remember who commented that he goes to Walmart and buys a big cheap starter battery (not deep discharge), uses it for a year or so until it is dead, then buys a new one.

Now that is being practical

I suppose the only thing more "simplistic" than that is buying oil lamps and being old school. However, oil lamps are much more harmful to the environment that a tiny solar panel, small motorcycle battery and a bunch of LEDs (IMO).
None of us likes to throw money away for just the sake of it. Cavelierly saying it's simple begs whether you chose to take a simpleton approach.


Since my AGM historically have lasted 10+ years their cost the ffectiveness equals 3 replacementnts of wet cells. Not to mention the time and aggrevation of replacing batteries 3 times intear of one and the costs associated. AGM take charge more quickly than wet. AGM don't loose their charge over winter like a wet would. Never require constant filling with DISTILLED water ( hidden expense and again time and effort) AGM you don't sorry about battery acid leaking. AGM can be laid on their sides to mximize battery cabinet space.

AGM have downsides also.....but are wet cells simpler....not hardly.
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Re: Realistic expectations for my house batteries

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Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
None of us likes to throw money away for just the sake of it. Cavelierly saying it's simple begs whether you chose to take a simpleton approach.


Since my AGM historically have lasted 10+ years their cost the ffectiveness equals 3 replacementnts of wet cells. Not to mention the time and aggrevation of replacing batteries 3 times intear of one and the costs associated. AGM take charge more quickly than wet. AGM don't loose their charge over winter like a wet would. Never require constant filling with DISTILLED water ( hidden expense and again time and effort) AGM you don't sorry about battery acid leaking. AGM can be laid on their sides to mximize battery cabinet space.

AGM have downsides also.....but are wet cells simpler....not hardly.
My experience with AGMs (now 9 years old) is similar to chefís. Because of the charge retention, that means you donít have to remove them over the winter or periodically charge them during an extended haul-out. Since these things are heavy (~66 lbs for each of my 5 batteries) so leaving them in place is a real advantage over liquid cells.
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Re: Realistic expectations for my house batteries

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My experience with AGMs (now 9 years old) is similar to chefís. Because of the charge retention, that means you donít have to remove them over the winter or periodically charge them during an extended haul-out. Since these things are heavy (~66 lbs for each of my 5 batteries) so leaving them in place is a real advantage over liquid cells.
Not so much these days where most people have at least some kind of solar charging
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Old 04-16-2019
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Re: Realistic expectations for my house batteries

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Originally Posted by fallard View Post
My experience with AGMs (now 9 years old) is similar to chefís. Because of the charge retention, that means you donít have to remove them over the winter or periodically charge them during an extended haul-out. Since these things are heavy (~66 lbs for each of my 5 batteries) so leaving them in place is a real advantage over liquid cells.
That goes doubly for my 8A4D AGM's for my electric propulsion bank at 120 pounds each. Solar and a monthly charge over the winter seems to work well.

Mike
Currently: Heading to warm waters over the winter on a variety of boats.

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Old 04-16-2019
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Re: Realistic expectations for my house batteries

So what would one recommend to replace 4-GC2 Lead Acid batteries. My batter box is built to EXACTLY fit the 4 GC2 batteries, so I’m stuck with that size format. We live aboard in the Caribbean for 6 months then put the boat up. While aboard we are 100% on the hook. We have ample solar and wind. I’m 68 years old and don’t need batteries with a 30 year life span or payback. Pretty low power drain: all LED, reefer is our biggest drain. Very simple boat systems wise, use AC only in rare circumstances like charging computers. Honda 2000 generator.

I’m estimating our daily current draw at about 125 amps when laying on the hook. If we ever go North again that will go up substantially to run the Espar D4.

It would be interesting to hear the suggestions.

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