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post #121 of 138 Old 4 Weeks Ago
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Re: Realistic expectations for my house batteries

Boat was on the hard for 6 months of the last 6 years. Got it with flooded lead. Immediately changed to agm. They get of to 100% regularly. Very rarely below 80%. If switched to Li would need to glass in pb to keep trim. Carbon foam is still on back order from most places so premium cost with no discounts at present. Hopefully will change by the time I need to re up on batteries. Please understand Li remains a possibility. With review the calculus when the time comes. Have several friends who switched to carbon and are quite pleased. At time of purchase carbon was cheaper then Li Ah to Ah. Expect that will return as production increases to demand.
This year while in the windwards wake up to batteries being at 13.1-13.4. During the day solar is frequently diverted to heat sinks. In this setting don’t get to exploit the numerous advantages of Li. Even wondering if pb may suffice if we continue to stay in this cruising grounds.

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post #122 of 138 Old 4 Weeks Ago
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Re: Realistic expectations for my house batteries

https://www.morganscloud.com/2018/05...art-1-lithium/

Nice short review worth reading before blowing the bucks.

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Re: Realistic expectations for my house batteries

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Even wondering if pb may suffice if we continue to stay in this cruising grounds.
Your only two choices are lead or lithium. Carbon foam is still a lead acid battery no different in chemistry than all other lead acid batteries.

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https://www.morganscloud.com/2018/05...art-1-lithium/

Nice short review worth reading before blowing the bucks.
That link goes to a paywall, so can't read the article. However, one should take Morgan's Cloud writings with a grain of salt. They have been seriously wrong, or uninformed, on several things in the past, and sometimes confuse their celebrity with expertise.

If you really want to read up, we have a resident here - Mainesail - who has done some very good work and communication about lithium batteries in boats. There are also great threads and blogs written by people similar to Mainesail who have also done a lot of hands-on experimentation. I would go to these places before Morganscloud for gaining knowledge in this area.

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Re: Realistic expectations for my house batteries

Different strokes for different folks. What impresses me with Morgan cloud is when wrong they fess up and publish a correction. Their readership is quite vocal in letting very little slide and consists of many long term cruisers.
Always look forward to Mainesails input.

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Re: Realistic expectations for my house batteries

MS LFP post https://marinehowto.com/lifepo4-batteries-on-boats/
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Re: Realistic expectations for my house batteries

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After reading Maine Sails treatise on lithium versus AGM batteries until my brain hurts. I'm more convinced than ever but I made the right choice to just stick with AGM batteries for my boats electric propulsion system and Gels for the house battery bank. Adding the complexity and cost of the lithium system just does not make sense for my sailboat.
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Re: Realistic expectations for my house batteries

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After reading Maine Sails treatise on lithium versus AGM batteries until my brain hurts. I'm more convinced than ever but I made the right choice to just stick with AGM batteries for my boats electric propulsion system and Gels for the house battery bank. Adding the complexity and cost of the lithium system just does not make sense for my sailboat.
For many boaters use/applications LFP does not make financial sense unless you plan to DIY then the cost is comparable to AGM..... For many who want to DIY they often don't make smart sense because too many folks don't care to do the research and ruin them far too early.

Still my own 400Ah cells are now 10 years old and they still deliver in excess of 400Ah with over 1100 cycles on them. Other than Firefly I can't think of more than a couple of lead acid batteries we've tested, at more than a year old, that could deliver their full Ah rating. Just two weeks ago we had a customers West Marine / East Penn AGM's in the shop for testing. At 16 months old they could only muster 61% of their rated capacity (technically dead in less than 16 months)... Ouch!!!

At this rate I fully expect our bank to last at least 15 years but perhaps even 20 or more.

Considering it cost us less than a bank of Odyssey TPPL AGM's, that would have long ago been dead, the value for us was certainly there even though we only use the boat for 6-months each year. There are also other hidden benefits, since installing LFP I've not once had to dig into the Espar, to clean it, where with LA it was literally an every spring ritual.

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Last edited by Maine Sail; 4 Weeks Ago at 12:51 PM.
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Re: Realistic expectations for my house batteries

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For many boaters use/applications LFP does not make financial sense unless you plan to DIY then the cost is comparable to AGM..... For many who want to DIY they often don't make smart sense because too many folks don't care to do the research and ruin them far too early.

Considering it cost us less than a bank of Odyssey TPPL AGM's, that would have long ago been dead, the value for us was certainly there even though we only use the boat for 6-months each year. There are also other hidden benefits, since installing LFP I've not once had to dig into the Espar, to clean it, where with LA it was literally an every spring ritual.
My first set of AGM's for my Electric Propulsion system lasted eight years. Actually only one of the batteries got flaky due to a parasitic load that was on it over the winters. I think I could have gotten 10 years out of the bank otherwise. I replaced them all since they were eight years old just to keep the ages the same.

With the second set I made a big mistake. Of the four batteries shipped two arrived in a visibly damaged condition. They were replaced by the shipper but, I should have rejected all four because the next season one if the other batteries failed after a short amount of time in operation. This season I will be replacing only that one since the others are still fairly new. I expect I'll get close to ten years out of the current bank if the past is any indication. Hopefully by then Lithium prices will have lowered and the batteries become more plug and play than they currently are. But, I said the same thing when I initially converted to Electric Propulsion in 2008.

Not sure why a difference between Lead Acid and Lithium batteries would affect you Espar heater?

Mike
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Re: Realistic expectations for my house batteries

My first pair of 8D AGMs lasted 8 years... did not have a separate start battery... OEM one two both switch. upgraded system... blue seas 8080 swtich.. optima blue top start... paralleled 2 AGMs for house bank... upgraded regulators added ech charge and link 20 monitor... changed to all LEDs. 7 years... and they seem fine. I expect them to expire within the next couple of years.

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Re: Realistic expectations for my house batteries

Our first set of 6-6volt lifeline AGM lasted 10+ years with very little loss till the end. Even the we probably could have eeked another year but because of our extended vacations on the hook decided to replace. The 720 ah bank is overkill for us, but I really don't want to have to sorry about power. 6 volts are easy for me to handle myself . We can fit 6 into the space . We have a blue top spiral starting battery. We do equaluze the Lifelines monthly to prevent premature suffication.

For our usage they have fit the bill and are very low maintenance.


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