What's up with PERKO? - Page 4 - SailNet Community
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post #31 of 40 Old 2 Weeks Ago
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Re: What's up with PERKO?

No one is suggesting youíre lying pamlico, nor saying your wrong, per se. Itís all speculation on our part. We can not digest their reaction, without knowing exactly how you sent it to them, what note was included, or what was said between you. If you even intimated they should consider replacing it, their note makes more sense in context. Still not the best handling, but I certainly wouldnít boycott them over it.

In a vacuum, it soundís bad. But you posted it, because you feel it was bad. Maybe itís exactly as you describe. Maybe their side of the story would change opinions.

Thatís all.


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Re: What's up with PERKO?

A battery switch like that is two terminals and a spring-loaded bar that switches between them, almost every problem with battery equipment is the terminals, connectors, the wire or combination of any of the above.

P, You could have provided photos of the damage. Who installed the switch?
And I think you said three years its been in, is that the last time any of the battery terminals in your boat where checked? What is the electrician friend's place in all, this did he burn it out?

customer coddling service is a thing of the past, that went out with the baby boomer perception that "Sears" will replace anyting no questions asked"

The customer is no longer always right.

I provided the PDF, wonder if anybody actually read it. The warranty is basically no warranty, free of defect from the factory.

People like me in contracting business most of their lives are painfully aware that warranty and guarantees are not "law" there are a good faith option.
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Re: What's up with PERKO?

Quote:
Originally Posted by deniseO30 View Post

P, You could have provided photos of the damage. Who installed the switch?
And I think you said three years its been in, is that the last time any of the battery terminals in your boat where checked? What is the electrician friend's place in all, this did he burn it out?

.
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Re: What's up with PERKO?

Quote:
Originally Posted by deniseO30 View Post
A battery switch like that is two terminals and a spring-loaded bar that switches between them, almost every problem with battery equipment is the terminals, connectors, the wire or combination of any of the above.

P, You could have provided photos of the damage. Who installed the switch?
And I think you said three years its been in, is that the last time any of the battery terminals in your boat where checked? What is the electrician friend's place in all, this did he burn it out?

customer coddling service is a thing of the past, that went out with the baby boomer perception that "Sears" will replace anyting no questions asked"

The customer is no longer always right.

I provided the PDF, wonder if anybody actually read it. The warranty is basically no warranty, free of defect from the factory.

People like me in contracting business most of their lives are painfully aware that warranty and guarantees are not "law" there are a good faith option.
Seems pretty standard, they warranted only defects in manufacturing not improper installation or maintenance.

The OP stated that the switch was rated in excess of 300 amps, while technically true for the one he pictured it is actually only rated for 250 amps continuous and 360 amps for 5 minutes, intermittent, per PERKO's website and specs listed there. This could mean two things one occasionally it will work at 360 amps for 5 minutes, probably not IMO, or more likely it will work at 360 amps for up to 5 minutes if the draw is intermittent, in other words not continuous and is given a chance to cool down. I would never claim a switch was rated for its max intermittent current, I personally would only say the switch was rated for 250 Amps max not the 360 amps. Now if the OP was using the Heavy Duty ones they are rated at 450 amps continuous and 1200 intermittent, but they do not mach the picture provided.

Lots of manufacturers do this try returning a desktop motherboard with an Intel socket in it after a CPU was installed for a bent pins... No manufacturer takes them back after a cpu was installed that I know of.


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Re: What's up with PERKO?

Quote:
Originally Posted by capta View Post
I'm sorry, but I'd be a lot more concerned with why a 300 amp switch failed on a circuit that has only a deck wash pump on it, than a response you weren't pleased with, especially since it had some pretty important information for you.
As Sandero noted “Faulty connections can get mighty hot.”

The operative, and correct, word in that sentence is FAULTY.

Quote:
Dear Mr. XXXX:
I am returning the switch as-is. The switch was overloaded and melted the terminal
Sincerely,
PERKO, Inc.
Gail Mally-Inside Sales Department
The reply is simply putting the blame back on the owner by claiming there was an overload. It seems most folks here recognize that most likely source of the heat was a bad connection. In short Sandero’s response was much more on point than Perko’s.

If not told Perko should have asked about the load. If the load was as low as stated then this is clearly a FAULTY product and one that could start a fire.

I guess one could argue that the “fault” may have been either in the switch (Perko problem) or the connection (Owner problem). But then it would have been nice for Perko to say what they though the problem part was, or say they could not tell.

But then one could argue that the connection material (Holt, nut,washed) was provided by Perko and installed properly.

This is a case of understanding the problem but not the issue. Muddled thinking, which seems to be a human specialty.

Or maybe not, it’s a LEGAL response not admitting any liability but pointing back at the customer.

It’s unlikely there is anything to be done about it, but it still stinks.

FWIW I have issues with RayMarine and especially their tiller pilots. That’s my own little hobby horse about poor product and customer relations.

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Last edited by hpeer; 1 Week Ago at 09:19 AM.
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Re: What's up with PERKO?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pamlicotraveler View Post
I would like to know the real cause, and am perplexed that my 30 AMP fuse in the circuit hasn't blown, but really, again, that isn't the issue.
A high resistance connection can create enough heat to burn an entire marina and never trip a fuse or breaker. This happens more than should in "twist-lock" shore power circuits. You could be passing 20A through a termination that, due to condition, can really only handle 1A and create some really, really high heat, enough to melt the switch.

Here is a very high amperage Class T fuse holder melted due to incorrect lug stacking which resulted in high resistance. The fuse never tripped because the largest load was nowhere near the fuse or fuse blocks rating but the terminals were stacked so as to create some serious resistance and heat. Not the fault of the fuse holder but rather the terminations and incorrect stacking of them that lead to the high resistance.


Here is a situation where a DIY tried to crimp a terminal designed for multi-conductor wire, to solid conductor land grade wire, on a hot 120V feed. It created high resistance and began to melt the terminal and physically discolor the terminal it got so hot. The main breaker, 30A, never tripped, as this boat could not draw more than 16A. This is not the fault of the terminal, you just don't crimp solid conductor wire..


Here's a 50A rated shore cord from a boat that could barely pull half the circuit breakers 50A rating. This is caused by a high resistance connection creating immense heat that would have never tripped the breaker.


Here's a Scotchlok that had high resistance, and began to melt, at amperage's well below the circuits 10A circuit breaker rating.


And here a DIY tried to crimp this alternator wire with pliers. The wire to terminal junction created enough heat to begin physically melting the diode isolator at well below its amperage rating. That wire was also red.... Focus on the color of the actual terminal... All this heat developed at amperage's well below the isolators rating.
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Re: What's up with PERKO?

Once had a Perko either/neither develop a mysterious voltage drop. No noticeable heat yet but foreboding.
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Re: What's up with PERKO?

As I would expect, mainesail has this covered.

The OP was expecting a response like I got from Simrad. When I reached out to them, that I was hoping for a repair of my Tiller Pilot that I took full ownership for having broken (accidentally stepped on it, and it broke the ram on it), after having had it only for 3 weeks. I was hoping they could repair and charge me the part/time to replace. They instead sent me a new unit.

I don't really disagree with how Perko handled the transaction, I do believe the letter could have been a bit more "fluffy" to smooth things over. You see you sent them an electrical part, that was obviously failed, and obviously overheated. We don't know what else was in the letter to them other than you were displeased that it "failed."

As a precautionary thing, I also would have ONLY analyzed the part, and sent it back to you with the likely cause. You see, the resulting part could have burned your boat down and by sending a replacement part, they might very well be taking ownership of the failure. Most business won't do that for reasons that may seem obvious.

For the record, I will only own a simrad tiller pilot now. I had 2 Raymarine Tiller Pilots prior to this one, and while they seem more "modern" of equipment and I did have to deal with their CS. They weren't nearly as customer focused as Simrad.

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Re: What's up with PERKO?

Maine Sail is doing what Perko should have done. Looked at the part and noted where the failure occurred. It could have been the contacts, or the connection. They might have been able to tell or not. But a note saying all we can tell is that there was a high resistance creating heat, it would be good to review how to make solid electrical connections, would have been in order.

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Re: What's up with PERKO?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
A high resistance connection can create enough heat to burn an entire marina and never trip a fuse or breaker. This happens more than should in "twist-lock" shore power circuits. You could be passing 20A through a termination that, due to condition, can really only handle 1A and create some really, really high heat, enough to melt the switch.

Here is a very h...
That is a great post MaineSail...much appreciated and very informative.

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