Which charges more efficiently? Fast Charge or Trickle Charge?? - SailNet Community
 4Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 15 Old 10-08-2019 Thread Starter
Moderator
 
MarkofSeaLife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: London!
Posts: 6,516
Thanks: 67
Thanked 299 Times in 271 Posts
Rep Power: 10
 
Dock
Which charges more efficiently? Fast Charge or Trickle Charge??

500 amp hour battery bank with 2 different chargers: a 25 amp charger and a 4 amp charger.

Which is more efficient for a battery to suck up?

Please don't make it more complicated than the question is


Merci!


Mark

Sea Life
Notes on a Circumnavigation:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


People can say they want freedom, but offer them the keys to what chains them, a map to where they want to go,
And they'll turn it down for the cell they know
MarkofSeaLife is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 15 Old 10-08-2019
Senior Member
 
outbound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: NE & Windwards
Posts: 6,382
Thanks: 137
Thanked 190 Times in 181 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Re: Which charges more efficiently? Fast Charge or Trickle Charge??

Depends on how charged batteries are to start with. My understanding is from 50% to 70-80% makes little difference. After that unless you have Li and have Pb based batteries the batteries can only accept a decreasing amount as they come to full charge. The rest of the energy is in part released as heat. So ultimately depends on the design and sophistication of the two different chargers. The one that presents just enough energy that can be efficiently absorbed will be the winner.
chef2sail likes this.

s/v Hippocampus
Outbound 46
outbound is offline  
post #3 of 15 Old 10-08-2019
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 20,223
Thanks: 82
Thanked 573 Times in 549 Posts
Rep Power: 11
   
Re: Which charges more efficiently? Fast Charge or Trickle Charge??

If you're charging a nearly full bank and not using more than 4 amps at the time, I would think the difference would be negligible.

If you're charging a discharged bank that will accept more than 4 amps, I'd have to say the larger charger, which will run fewer hours. For that matter, I don't think a 4 amp charger would ever properly recharge a deeply discharged 500 Ahr bank, especially if the "trickle" charger only does so in float voltage.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Minnewaska is offline  
 
post #4 of 15 Old 10-08-2019
Super Moderator
 
Maine Sail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maine Coast
Posts: 6,694
Thanks: 32
Thanked 362 Times in 282 Posts
Rep Power: 10
       
Re: Which charges more efficiently? Fast Charge or Trickle Charge??

The 25A will be your better choice. You're looking at an effective charge rate of just 0.05C (5% of Ah capacity) and most AGM's can easily be charged much, much faster, typically in the .4C or 40% of Ah capacity range...

The problem with the trickle charger is that your bank may be full before the trickle charger can even get to the limiting absorption voltage. 4A is just .8% of capacity and this does not include on board loads which could easily make it a charger smaller than .5% of Ah capacity.. A 100% chock full Lifeline AGM is considered full at .5% of Ah capacity at 14.4V.

Also, if this is a true "trickle charger", meaning constant current only, no absorption and no float, it can actually damage the batteries. Stick with a true multi-stage marine charger.
MarkofSeaLife likes this.

______
-Maine Sail / CS-36T


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




© Images In Posts Property of Compass Marine Inc.


Maine Sail is offline  
post #5 of 15 Old 10-08-2019
Senior Member
 
colemj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: On the boat cruising
Posts: 2,888
Thanks: 4
Thanked 116 Times in 110 Posts
Rep Power: 17
 
Re: Which charges more efficiently? Fast Charge or Trickle Charge??

On our boat, 25A is a trickle charger.

My answer is run both together (if you were asking which to run).

Mark
Maine Sail likes this.

Dolphin 460 Catamaran "Reach"

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Current boat

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Previous boat
colemj is offline  
post #6 of 15 Old 10-08-2019
bell ringer
 
Don L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Marathon Fl
Posts: 4,232
Thanks: 10
Thanked 119 Times in 106 Posts
Rep Power: 12
 
Re: Which charges more efficiently? Fast Charge or Trickle Charge??

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
500 amp hour battery bank with 2 different chargers: a 25 amp charger and a 4 amp charger.

Which is more efficient for a battery to suck up?

Please don't make it more complicated than the question is


Merci!


Mark
the 25 amp charger (that's the simple answer to me)

but that's making assumptions of SOC and charging source

but a 70-100 amp one would probably be even more efficient for the first couple hours

what good is a 4 amp charger anyway? My refrigerator uses more power than that

BTW - I didn't read anyone else's answer because I don't care, this is MY answer

Don't blow air up my rear, be useful and blow it at the sails!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Don L is online now  
post #7 of 15 Old 10-08-2019
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,160
Thanks: 114
Thanked 47 Times in 46 Posts
Rep Power: 3
 
Re: Which charges more efficiently? Fast Charge or Trickle Charge??

Actual trickle chargers are traditionally totally crippled-stupid, no concept of stages at all like a PSU really. Very much not recommended.

If by "efficiently" you mean lower heat losses, not using so much input power, that does not depend on current rate throughput and is not important with mains as your upstream source, nor even a genset in practice.

If by "efficiency" you mean time taken charging from a depleted state to 100% Full, then higher amps will make a difference.

But not as much as you'd think with lead chemistries, especially with FLA. With GEL you don't want to fast charge anyway.

AGM has a very high CAR, but still takes 7+ hours no matter how much current you throw at it. might save 20-30min doubling amps offered.

https://marinehowto.com/how-fast-can...ry-be-charged/

If this answer - simple as I could make it - was not comprehensive, please clarify your question.
john61ct is online now  
post #8 of 15 Old 10-08-2019
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,160
Thanks: 114
Thanked 47 Times in 46 Posts
Rep Power: 3
 
Re: Which charges more efficiently? Fast Charge or Trickle Charge??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don0190 View Post
what good is a 4 amp charger anyway?
Fast charging a very tiny battery 8-)

Or maintaining a Full SoC on a large bank in storage.
john61ct is online now  
post #9 of 15 Old 10-08-2019
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,160
Thanks: 114
Thanked 47 Times in 46 Posts
Rep Power: 3
 
Re: Which charges more efficiently? Fast Charge or Trickle Charge??

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
500 amp hour battery bank
Yes with a 500Ah bank, beside the 4A charger taking 100 hours

depending on the chemistry, **dropping to 5 or 10A** may be the specification for knowing that you're at 100% Full.

Since the max charge is 4A, there is a real danger that rate being **too** low will result in overcharging.
john61ct is online now  
post #10 of 15 Old 10-09-2019 Thread Starter
Moderator
 
MarkofSeaLife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: London!
Posts: 6,516
Thanks: 67
Thanked 299 Times in 271 Posts
Rep Power: 10
 
Dock
Re: Which charges more efficiently? Fast Charge or Trickle Charge??

I made a mistake by thinking that a question simply put would give the wanted answer. I see I was wrong and didn't realise assumptions would be made that throw my question off course.
Sorry... so... here is the amended question that I think has been answered by 'heat' but I'm not sure.

I am in a marina in London for all of winter with *Extremely* expensive electricity. US 30 cents per kilowatt (GBP .245 cents per KW).

I have solar panels in a reasonably sunny position. But I need to augment that with a bit of shore power charging.

I generally only drop the batteries down 10% per day... about 50 amp hours on the meter. This will be made up by the solar on a normal sunny day. But when its not due to ice, snow, grey clouds ect I need to put in about 50 amp hours per day.

I only turn on any charger on demand and turn it off before fully charged (I get to fully charged on sunny days at least once per week).

So the question is does a battery accept charge better faster or slower?

The answer appears to be the by-product of heat produced by the units. Where heat is generated there must be an inefficiency in the charging unit.
The longer the charger is on the more time for heat to generate.

If the 25 amp charger is a marine, new technology and claims very little heat generated its shorter charging time (say 1.5 hours) it would be more efficient than a much longer, 8 hour, changing time at lower amps with heat generated from the trickle charger which is a cheap auto charger.

It may just be a few cents per hours, but over 6 months a dinner with a few beers...


Mark

Sea Life
Notes on a Circumnavigation:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


People can say they want freedom, but offer them the keys to what chains them, a map to where they want to go,
And they'll turn it down for the cell they know
MarkofSeaLife is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome