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post #21 of 73 Old 01-20-2015
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Re: Boat wire: is SAE tinned "good enough"?

I agree with the other posters. Both Ancor (distributed by Paynes in Canada) and Vertex (distributed by Vertex and Stright Mckay among others) are 105 deg 600 volt wire and tinned, as is boat cable from ECS. Wire with this spec is available across the country.

If you purchased from Holland Marine I would return it and never deal with them again.

Brian
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post #22 of 73 Old 01-20-2015 Thread Starter
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Re: Boat wire: is SAE tinned "good enough"?

Once again,
I appreciate the support and advice on this forum. It is certainly reassuring to hear that my gut reaction when I inspected my purchase is not unfounded. This is exactly what I was looking for.

Having said that, I would urge restraint in passing judgement until the dust has settled. Please remember that this is my personal account of a transaction for which the retailer has not yet fully responded.

Yes there is no question that there is a problem here. An item was advertised on sale; I paid for it; I got something else. Don't worry, I've covered my bases. My receipt lists the items paid for and I have a screen grab from the online ad. On the other hand, I'm also willing to consider that this may have been an "honest" mistake. For all I know, some employee didn't know any better.

Yes, the response I got from this business when I first voiced my concerns, is even more regrettable. Although speculation on my part, I suspect this probably was an attempt to pacify me and make me go away, regardless of what actually caused the mixup. But, as they pointed out, I was calling first thing in the morning after a busy week at the show and they hadn't even had a chance to unpack. At this point they've requested a few days to sort things out and I've agreed.

I'd also like to take some responsibility for this kerfuffle. After all, I did buy these items in person and had every opportunity to inspect the goods and voice concerns before opening my wallet. In addition, I should point out that I purchased many other items at the same time, with which I'm completely satisfied. Furthermore, the fact that these folks spent nearly half an hour providing me with specific and valuable knowledge about how to maintain my boat, certainly influences my overall opinion of them. Finally this chandler was recommended to me by local sailors and judging by the volume of sales, they obviously have many satisfied repeat customers. It is for these reasons that at this time, I am choosing not to crucify this business in a public forum.
Pending final resolution of this situation, I certainly reserve the right to reverse this decision

I'm sure some of you think that I'm giving these guys way to much benefit of the doubt.However, I like to think that we all make mistakes in life, big and small, sometimes intentional sometimes not. I certainly appreciate when I'm given a chance to make good on my mistakes. I've given these guys an opportunity; let's see how this pans out; and I'll certainly post any developments here. At the same time, I completely agree with those who are stating that we need to inform each other as consumers, which is why I am offering to provide further detailed information to those who are requesting it.

Phew. I apologize for the long winded response. If you're utterly bored by this post, just wait until this newb starts posting real boating questions....

cheers,
Novic
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post #23 of 73 Old 01-20-2015
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Re: Boat wire: is SAE tinned "good enough"?

If it hasn't been mentioned before, another very important difference between boat wire and auto primary wire is the thickness of the individual strands. Boat wire has much thinner strands. This adds flexibility and reduces the risk of the strands becoming brittle and breaking at bends that get flexed with the movement of the boat.
For what it's worth, Novic, I think you're being way too nice to them. Give them a chance to fix the problem--maybe the guy you talked to on the phone was a recent, bad hire. Otherwise, if they were just making an honest mistake they should have fixed it and not BS'd you. You bear zero (0) responsibility for having been sold junk by people whom you are paying from their presumed expertise and competence. I agree, they ought to pay shipping and apologize.
And if they don't, nobody else here should get sucked into buying from them.
Good luck with it.
JV
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post #24 of 73 Old 01-20-2015
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Re: Boat wire: is SAE tinned "good enough"?

We really have no idea what the OP received, as he hasn't replied to my question about what the labelling is on the cable EXACTLY.

All we know is that it says SAE on it, and it's 50V, 80C. If any of you had taken the trouble to read the UL1426 specification I linked to, you'd see that it's entirely possible to get UL1426 listed, 50V 80C boat cable with an SAE mark.

So the implications in some posts are that the only thing that's allowed to be called "boat cable" is sold by Ancor and has a 105C, 600V rating. This is not true. That's one kind of boat cable, the OP probably got a different kind.

The idea that we should castigate the vendor, publicly, without knowing any of the facts about what the original description of the cable was, is unfair.

If the vendor sold it as 105C, 600V boat cable, then clearly it was not as described. If, on the other hand, it was simply described as boat cable, then perhaps the purchaser is partly to blame for not clarifying exactly what kind of cable it was.

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post #25 of 73 Old 01-20-2015
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Re: Boat wire: is SAE tinned "good enough"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkSF View Post
We really have no idea what the OP received, as he hasn't replied to my question about what the labelling is on the cable EXACTLY.

All we know is that it says SAE on it, and it's 50V, 80C. If any of you had taken the trouble to read the UL1426 specification I linked to, you'd see that it's entirely possible to get UL1426 listed, 50V 80C boat cable with an SAE mark.

So the implications in some posts are that the only thing that's allowed to be called "boat cable" is sold by Ancor and has a 105C, 600V rating. This is not true. That's one kind of boat cable, the OP probably got a different kind.

The idea that we should castigate the vendor, publicly, without knowing any of the facts about what the original description of the cable was, is unfair.

If the vendor sold it as 105C, 600V boat cable, then clearly it was not as described. If, on the other hand, it was simply described as boat cable, then perhaps the purchaser is partly to blame for not clarifying exactly what kind of cable it was.
The problem is he was told or lead to believe he was buying Ancor brand wire.

Quote:
Originally Posted by novic View Post
This was advertised as Ancor product that was priced at roughly 40-50% off local retail pricing. What I ended up getting in the box is SAE wire labelled "C.S. Wire & Cable" rated at 80deg and 50V. I freely admit I'm a bit of stickler for details, but in my mind this isn't quite the same as AWG wire rated at 105deg and 600V.
Ancor has always produced a 105C wire with the Ancor brand name on it and it is AWG wire not SAE. Perhaps the vendor bought this wire from the same factory that also makes Ancor wire but that does not make it Ancor BC5W2 105C marine wire. It makes it C.S Wire & Cable 80C SAE wire which is not what he was lead to believe he was buying.

While SAE wire of certain ratings and types are both UL1426 and ABYC qualified selling C.S. SAE wire as Ancor is a little disingenuous to say the least. If I am told I am buying a lot of Ancor or other "marine wire", and I have done so, I am expecting to get 105C BC5W2 wire.

Every maker of marine wire I know of such as Ancor, Pacer, Berkshire, Cobra, Kalas, Camco, East Penn etc. all make 105C wire and this is what the industry and electricians use and have been now for years and years...........

To me it is not whether it falls under the UL1426 category but whether he bought Ancor wire, which he was told he was. If it was really Ancor wire it would be 105C....

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Last edited by Maine Sail; 01-20-2015 at 01:14 PM.
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Re: Boat wire: is SAE tinned "good enough"?

MarkSF,

the original ad I responded to:

"Ancor Tinned Wire Special,,,about 50 percent savingins, UNBEATABLE!!
ANCOR Marine Grade™ wire is manufactured from tinned copper stranding for maximum protection against corrosion and electrolysis. Ultra flexible (Type 3) stranding resists fatigue due to ibration and flexing.
ANCOR's proprietary premium vinyl insulation stays flexible even in extreme cold and resists salt water, battery acid, oil, gasoline and ultra-violet radiation. Exclusive insulation is rated at 600 volts, 105° C dry and 75° C wet.
Exceeds all UL 1426, US Coast Guard Charterboat (CFR Title 46) and ABYC standards.
All wire pricing is subject so supplies on hand...Shop asap for best selection and PRICE!!
All shipping charges will be actual shipping charges. Pls supply full address for a quote."

the wire jacket labeling on the wire I picked up:

"CS Wire & Cable #12 GPT 80oC 50V SAE J1128 & J378"
"CS Wire & Cable #1/0 SGT 80oC 50V SAE J1127 & J378"

Of some amusement to me is that as of this morning, the online ad has been modified. The sentence starting from "Exclusive" ending with "ABYC standards is now deleted.

sigh...still waiting to hear back from them.
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Re: Boat wire: is SAE tinned "good enough"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by novic View Post
MarkSF,

the original ad I responded to:

"Ancor Tinned Wire Special,,,about 50 percent savingins, UNBEATABLE!!
ANCOR Marine Grade™ wire is manufactured from tinned copper stranding for maximum protection against corrosion and electrolysis. Ultra flexible (Type 3) stranding resists fatigue due to ibration and flexing.
ANCOR's proprietary premium vinyl insulation stays flexible even in extreme cold and resists salt water, battery acid, oil, gasoline and ultra-violet radiation. Exclusive insulation is rated at 600 volts, 105° C dry and 75° C wet.
Exceeds all UL 1426, US Coast Guard Charterboat (CFR Title 46) and ABYC standards.
All wire pricing is subject so supplies on hand...Shop asap for best selection and PRICE!!
All shipping charges will be actual shipping charges. Pls supply full address for a quote."

the wire jacket labeling on the wire I picked up:

"CS Wire & Cable #12 GPT 80oC 50V SAE J1128 & J378"
"CS Wire & Cable #1/0 SGT 80oC 50V SAE J1127 & J378"

Of some amusement to me is that as of this morning, the online ad has been modified. The sentence starting from "Exclusive" ending with "ABYC standards is now deleted.

sigh...still waiting to hear back from them.
Wow!!!!! And they even edited it........

I took a couple of screen shots of today's web page, if you need it..... I have dealt with them in the past and they've generally been okay so give them a chance to make right... Still NOT COOL!!!

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Last edited by Maine Sail; 01-20-2015 at 01:24 PM.
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Re: Boat wire: is SAE tinned "good enough"?

Well, it would seem that you have them bang to rights, so to speak!

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Re: Boat wire: is SAE tinned "good enough"?

Maine,
Thanks for chiming in providing your support. As an aside, I want to say a big thank you for everything you do. Several of your how-to articles had a lot to do with me undertaking some of these electrical projects in the first place.

On the other hand, inspiring myself from your webpage certainly isn't cheap...let's just say I've spent more than a few boat bucks on Blue Sea and Groco stuff over the last few weeks

cheers,
Novic
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post #30 of 73 Old 01-20-2015
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Re: Boat wire: is SAE tinned "good enough"?

Well, I guess my first question would be what are you going to use the wire for? Hey, it's just tinned, copper wire - nothing more, nothing less. Those specs are so high that in nearly every instance I seriously doubt that you would even get remotely close to overloading the wire. But, of course, that depends on what you intend to do with the wire.

Good luck,

Gary
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