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post #11 of 19 Old 05-27-2016
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Re: New Main

Suggestions.

For longevity of the sail Id recommend an 'over the top' leech line system, so that you can also adjust leech tension from the base of mast, instead of dangling over the water when the boom is far from the boats centerline.

For 'racing', discuss with the sailmaker your immediate goals and your current helmsman ability so that the loft can 'dial in' the correct 'luff entry shape' of the sail to meet your 'next goal/plateau'. For racing and 'performance cruising' consider a 'finer'/less-forgiving 'luff entry' shape; you don't have to go 'full flat entry' which requires that the helmsman be constantly 'on' ... perhaps an entry shape somewhere between entry level helmsman and 'fanatic'.

Also discuss with the loft to include some bolt rope 'preload' (shortening of the bolt rope) so that the sail is more 'adjustable' as to where the point of maximum draft occurs; but, this will require some additional stretch out of the luff via the main halyard when raising and setting. Then you can more easily adjust for 'weather helm' when the conditions warrant by adjusting main halyard tension.

Also consider to have the loft extend the bolt rope well beyond the head of the sail and 'stored' along the headboard ... so that WHEN the bolt rope shrinks, its an easy 20 minute job to reestablish the correct luff length and bolt rope 'preload'. Most dacron sails lose their shape principally because of bolt rope shrinkage (most 'blown out' mainsails can be brought back to reasonable shape by bolt rope adjustment/replacement ... adjustment is MUCH cheaper, especially if there is extra bolt rope already 'stored' along the top of the headboard.

I prefer 2 full (tapered) and 2 'long' battens. The 2 'long' make the sail easier to reef and with less abrasion of the cloth when reefed down.
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post #12 of 19 Old 05-27-2016
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Re: New Main

Quote:
Originally Posted by TQA View Post
I have a full batten main with lazyjacks and a stack pack on a 44 ft boat.

I love the set up and would hate to go back to partial battens and manual flaking.

I am often single handed and just love being able to come into the wind and release the halyard and watch the sail rattle down on the boom.
You do NOT need full battens for a stackpack and lazy jack system. This can be used with ALL partial battens too. Look at many of the charter boats in Caribbean.

I also agree with Rich;s comments. Get a sail that will meet your future sailing/racing desires. Hence why I also mentioned a laminate cloth vs dacron.

Marty

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post #13 of 19 Old 05-27-2016
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Re: New Main

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Challenge has changed their marketing labels and now "High Modulus" and "Marblehead" are the same cloth and come in low aspect and high aspect weaves. They have actually dropped the "High Modulus" name, but it remains in portions of the website and in sail maker vernacular.

Mark
The Challenge website lists both Marblehead and High Modulus cloths. Both have High Aspect and Low Aspect versions. I think Challenge used to have a cloth called High Aspect and that's what you are confusing. Here's the link to the High Modulus cloth which is a step down from Marblehead which is their best woven dacron cloth.
High Modulus ? Challenge Sailcloth
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post #14 of 19 Old 05-27-2016
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Re: New Main

Quote:
Originally Posted by deniseO30 View Post
Full battens are a pita if you don't have a mainsail track system. And a stack pack cover, They can be more difficult to raise too. I would not trust measurements without physically checking the rig and or old sail. Numbers aren't included?
But, I'm not an expert,good luck!
We went to a full batten loose foot main 4 years ago.

We don't have a stack pac and have no issues.
At the time we didn't have a mainsail track system and again no issue.
We also have an ez jack system and the sail drops perfectly flaked in one drop. We did get a mainsail car system .

Full batten main will be easier to shape and tend to last longer than their comparative partial batten ones.

Your quote seems reasonable, however I would get a competitive quote.

We used Quantum sails who measured, came a fit it when it arrived, and checked back a year later.


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Last edited by chef2sail; 05-27-2016 at 09:37 PM.
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post #15 of 19 Old 05-28-2016
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Re: New Main

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Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
We used Quantum sails who measured, came a fit it when it arrived, and checked back a year later.
Chef, I'm wondering what cloth you have, how you like it and are you cruising or racing (although I guess we all are racing)? I'm leaning toward Quantum just from noticing the quality difference of mine to theirs.

To the rest of you,

As for mine I have a full batten 7oz dacron on slugs with lazy jacks, it has 2 reef points and a cunningham cringle. The sail goes up easy, I do lube the slugs maybe a couple times a year, it reefs without leaving the cockpit. After the first season I learnt the lazy jacks were kind of interfering with trimming also the hoist so I tie them back after the douse. When dousing into the lazy jacks in goes down like someone cut the strings off and marinett. The sail has lasted 15 years made 2 passages to and fro the Caribbean/ RI and I don't know how many RI/ME and has seen over 50+knt breeze a couple of times. Honestly it still has good shape but last season I noticed a big difference in speed and there are holes starting to appear. I accredit it to the sailmaker not the brand but the guy I bought it from he listened to me sailed with me and believed me when I told him what kind of sailing I do. The second head sail the guy didn't listen or believe me (he sort of was an arrogant narcissist) didn't give me what I wanted or what he said that turned into to law suits and I never doing business with them again.

I've thought about the online guys I'm sure they make a good product but sails are an engine and need service, who's going to take care of you if there is a problem?

I've had this boat 15 years gone through 2 jibs and spinnakers and the one main I'm going for a whole new sail plan adding a code 0 and trying to figure out what I want for a jib. I think thats where a local guy comes in someone that will talk to you go out with you make suggestions.

Also wondering if anybody that has a code o what their sail combo's are?

Lastly 3dI sails only last 2 seasons!
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post #16 of 19 Old 05-28-2016
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Re: New Main

Quote:
Originally Posted by rckfd View Post
Chef, I'm wondering what cloth you have, how you like it and are you cruising or racing (although I guess we all are racing)? I'm leaning toward Quantum just from noticing the quality difference of mine to theirs.

To the rest of you,

As for mine I have a full batten 7oz dacron on slugs with lazy jacks, it has 2 reef points and a cunningham cringle. The sail goes up easy, I do lube the slugs maybe a couple times a year, it reefs without leaving the cockpit. After the first season I learnt the lazy jacks were kind of interfering with trimming also the hoist so I tie them back after the douse. When dousing into the lazy jacks in goes down like someone cut the strings off and marinett. The sail has lasted 15 years made 2 passages to and fro the Caribbean/ RI and I don't know how many RI/ME and has seen over 50+knt breeze a couple of times. Honestly it still has good shape but last season I noticed a big difference in speed and there are holes starting to appear. I accredit it to the sailmaker not the brand but the guy I bought it from he listened to me sailed with me and believed me when I told him what kind of sailing I do. The second head sail the guy didn't listen or believe me (he sort of was an arrogant narcissist) didn't give me what I wanted or what he said that turned into to law suits and I never doing business with them again.

I've thought about the online guys I'm sure they make a good product but sails are an engine and need service, who's going to take care of you if there is a problem?

I've had this boat 15 years gone through 2 jibs and spinnakers and the one main I'm going for a whole new sail plan adding a code 0 and trying to figure out what I want for a jib. I think thats where a local guy comes in someone that will talk to you go out with you make suggestions.

Also wondering if anybody that has a code o what their sail combo's are?

Lastly 3dI sails only last 2 seasons!
We have a C&C 35 MKIII which is a racer/ cruiser which we primarily cruise now. Those who bought or have this boat generally buy it for the performance aspect while it also is a quite comfortable cruiser we have taken each year on a 1000- 1500 mile round trip to the LI Sound and beyond.

However we want performance in our sails as well like all other sailors. It's a tradeoff. Spending large sums for a composite sail which is infinitely better on performance but won't last as long is not what we did. You have to determine what your primary use of. The boat is, They had to really convince me to get a loose foot sail as I liked the bolt rope on the boom, however I am a convert as our down wind performance has improved with this loose footed sail. We got full battens for the sail longevity as well as easy shaping as the sail aged. We've had no issues raising it and have an ez jack system we deploy from the cockpit and tie back to the mast after the sail is down. The sail flakes perfectly in it as I spend time single handing and all I have to do is erase the main halyard from the cockpit and it just drops down easily. I did by a mast track system as I wanted ease in raising / lowering and I like having the battened in stout holders on the mast. No need for a stack pack. In fact I am not a fan ( please no thread drift) as I don't like the extra wind age at anchor. I have no issue putting a sail cover on.

We have a pretty standard cross cut 8.9 oz high modulus challenge sailcloth full battened sail. Bought 3seasons ago and looks like new. Triple stitched. Bulletproof construction. The batten pockets are very robust and unbelievably constructed. The load points at the cringe, tack headboard well constructed. Everything about this lower priced Quantum sail shows quality. Sail made in South Africa. The equipment on it from the reef points , leach lines and cleats are well made

Their customer service was remarkable also with the multiple visits. I am sure you could save a few dollars ordering online but this is something amortized over a 12-15 year sail life is really minimal. I wanted to be able to talk to my sailmaker and bring the sail in if any problems existed easily. There have been now issues. Quantum calls every year asking if evertything is copacetic . Course they want my business for a new headsail too, which I will give them when the time comes.

I think if you survey any SN who have bough Quantum sails you will get a very positive response about the sails and the company.


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post #17 of 19 Old 05-28-2016
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Re: New Main

Quote:
Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
You do NOT need full battens for a stackpack and lazy jack system. This can be used with ALL partial battens too. Look at many of the charter boats in Caribbean.

I also agree with Rich;s comments. Get a sail that will meet your future sailing/racing desires. Hence why I also mentioned a laminate cloth vs dacron.

Marty
I think you are missing the thrust of my post. I don't give a stuff if I am a few seconds a mile faster or slower than partial battens but I do love the ability of the full batten system I have to rattle down the mast without me having to be at the mast pulling the mainsail down by hand.
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post #18 of 19 Old 05-28-2016
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Cool Re: New Main

We have used the "2 + 2" batten scheme for almost 25 years, presently with a UK Lazycradle. Works great. No special track on the mast, either.
Note that full battens do allow cheaper sail cloth, and therefore save a little expense in construction. On the 'minus' side is more friction and often having to buy $$ Strongtrack, and also add $$ cars for the battens.

Try (get therapy if needed) to keep the "R" word out of the conversation. Good sailmakers will build a "fast" and efficient shape into their main no matter what sort of material it's made of. Whether you later decide to cross a 'starting line' is a separate issue.

Never assume that a 'major' loft name will always be more expensive. Often you will be pleasantly surprised by how competitive they are. Service and support will usually be better,too.
And, never assume that a 'discounter' will always be less expensive. Some are and some are not.

I have known an agent for Lee Sails for a couple of decades and he can be very competitive for dacron sails and the loft will provide a decent shape too. He provides excellent customer service.
It's a lower price point, but not as low as the bottom feeders in the industry.

OTOH, modern sails will often be dacron/composite material and have performance and longevity advantages over traditional all-Dac materials.

It's kinda like getting bids for any commercial project: throw out the highest and lowest ones, and closely evaluate the ones in the middle...


Us? We have a great dacron UKSails main, a composite NorthSails head sail, and an original tri-radial chute from a small loft that went away about 20 years ago. All have excellent shape and quality construction.

Happy Shopping! (and be sure that you measure very carefully, especially for the tack and clew offsets...)

Loren

ps: today the site will not allow u/l of a jpg image, or I would post a decent picture of our boat close hauled. (?)
So here's a link:
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexc...chmentid=19173

Last edited by olson34; 05-28-2016 at 11:20 AM.
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post #19 of 19 Old 06-14-2016
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Re: New Main

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Challenge has changed their marketing labels and now "High Modulus" and "Marblehead" are the same cloth and come in low aspect and high aspect weaves. They have actually dropped the "High Modulus" name, but it remains in portions of the website and in sail maker vernacular.

Mark
This isn't correct info. The High Modulus and Marblehead weaves are entirely distinct from each other. Both are available in high and low aspect specification.

Marblehead ? Challenge Sailcloth

High Modulus ? Challenge Sailcloth
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