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post #11 of 35 Old 06-09-2016 Thread Starter
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Re: Jib sheets

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Originally Posted by aloof View Post
Sta-Set and the like are 50 year old technology. Any newer line, Spectra, or whatever, is so much better that buying that old rubbery polyester core is just silly. You can definitely downsize moving from Polyester core. Go as small as the winches and clutches will allow. Compare the working load ratings...
I just don't see the value in that expensive line when I can get 8 to ten years out of the Dacron. And I won't need to learn new splicing techniques as we've eye splices in both ends of the jib sheets (all sheets, actually) so we can turn them end for end annually.
It's not like we are racing or even performance sailing. We are looking for the most comfortable ride we can get, because we don't get to choose the weather we have to sail in, and our customers don't really enjoy getting the crap beaten out of them.
The 3/4 works splendidly on our 65's and I can only imagine how easy it would be to over-ride 1/2" line on those huge drums.
But should a couple of hundred feet of that newer line of appropriate size fall into our hands, we would certainly give it a try. I'll keep checking the mail buoy as we sail past.

"Any idiot can make a boat go; it takes a sailor to stop one." Spike Africa aboard the schooner Wanderer in Sausalito, Ca. 1964.
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Last edited by capta; 06-09-2016 at 01:56 AM.
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post #12 of 35 Old 06-09-2016
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Re: Jib sheets

I like larger diameter line better as I get older(65) because I find it much to easier to grip.
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post #13 of 35 Old 06-09-2016
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Re: Jib sheets

Cappy,
Aloof I think said it the best "rubbery" tie one of those old sheets to something you'd be pulling the world not the boat play it out like 20' grab hold and lean back hard. I tell you will be surprised!
I think I know what you're saying about stay set, last year I replaced a halyard with stay set x and the cover has gotten real fuzzy the regular stay set I find a bit slippery when new it tends to stay that way for a year or more and the samson xls has more a cloth feel to it. Personally I use the samson for that reason.
I also agree with Seabeau with the hand on the line feel and getting my 9.75 little sausages around tiny lines is hard.

And finally if you get something with like a Dyneema "braided" core with a "braided" polyester cover splicing is done the exact way as your use to.
Doing something fancy is optional.

There are brands of rope (I'm off the boat) that have Dyneema core with fillers to give it more volume for better hand, braided so you can splice the same way etc etc.

there you go...

Last edited by rckfd; 06-09-2016 at 07:21 AM.
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post #14 of 35 Old 06-09-2016
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Re: Jib sheets

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Originally Posted by rckfd View Post

And finally if you get something with like a Dyneema "braided" core with a "braided" polyester cover splicing is done the exact way as your use to.
Doing something fancy is optional.

There are brands of rope (I'm off the boat) that have Dyneema core with fillers to give it more volume for better hand, braided so you can splice the same way etc etc.

there you go...
While I agree that the right answer is to step up to a dyneema core, the lines are not spliced the same. With dyneema cores the entire strength of the line is in the core, the cover is just there for abrasion and uv protection, so it takes a different splice. It's actually an easier splice to do that a double braid eye splice, but it is different. Personally I tend to raper the end and just do a bare eye splice, but you can also leave it covered and pull the cover over the eye, I just don't bother. In five years or so you just cut off a couple feet and re-splice it.


I would probably recommend 1/2" Yale Maxibraid Plus. It's the same strength as 3/4" sta-set, less than half the weight, and because it uses a polyester cover instead of a Kevlar/Technora cover like endurabraid far less expensive. It's basically entry level dyneema, not as good as the high end, but at a far cheaper price.

The only supplier for the 3/4 Sta-Set i could find as asking $2.70/ft the Maxibraid runs about $3.

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post #15 of 35 Old 06-09-2016
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Re: Jib sheets

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Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
While I agree that the right answer is to step up to a dyneema core, the lines are not spliced the same. With dyneema cores the entire strength of the line is in the core, the cover is just there for abrasion and uv protection, so it takes a different splice. It's actually an easier splice to do that a double braid eye splice, but it is different. Personally I tend to raper the end and just do a bare eye splice, but you can also leave it covered and pull the cover over the eye, I just don't bother. In five years or so you just cut off a couple feet and re-splice it.


I would probably recommend 1/2" Yale Maxibraid Plus. It's the same strength as 3/4" sta-set, less than half the weight, and because it uses a polyester cover instead of a Kevlar/Technora cover like endurabraid far less expensive. It's basically entry level dyneema, not as good as the high end, but at a far cheaper price.

The only supplier for the 3/4 Sta-Set i could find as asking $2.70/ft the Maxibraid runs about $3.
Like I said you can splice it the same as stay set, if you want it fancier that's optional.

Honestly I don't like how bear Dyneema gets all those short hairs when it starts to wear looks like it needs a shave.

Last edited by rckfd; 06-09-2016 at 10:41 AM.
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post #16 of 35 Old 06-09-2016
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Re: Jib sheets

3/4" Samson XLS is $2.40 per foot at Defender.

Marine XLS Yacht Braid
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Re: Jib sheets

I am a fan of the newer lines but I also have Lewmar 65 primaries and would want to be sure that a smaller diameter line would work well on the winches. The 65s seem to be designed for large diameter lines. I guess big boats in places like St Martin are using smaller Dyneema type lines so big dacron may not be easily available in the Caribbean.
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After the refit we have decided to sell Ainia. We want something smaller that would be could for the light summer winds of Lake Ontario, although we plan to spend at least a couple of winters in the Caribbean before heading north.
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Re: Jib sheets

Thanks all. It has been an interesting thread and it has given me a lot to think over.
There are lot of new products out there that I resist on the 'if it ain't broke...' principle. I have been talking to the crews on the mega sailing yachts with their super line rigging and it is surely impressive. Isn't if funny how we've gone from cordage holding up trees to wire, then rod and now back to cordage? With the leathered, served and sewn terminations on these rigs, they look so much more 'ship shape' than the old pressed fittings, and I'm guessing opening up a whole new (what was old is now new) skill set for the modern vessel rigger.
I have no doubt that we'll move to the super lines for our runners and the triatic, if we decide to put one on, but I don't see moving to them for sheets as any advantage with the size of our winches.
Thanks again.

"Any idiot can make a boat go; it takes a sailor to stop one." Spike Africa aboard the schooner Wanderer in Sausalito, Ca. 1964.
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post #19 of 35 Old 06-09-2016
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Re: Jib sheets

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Originally Posted by rckfd View Post
Like I said you can splice it the same as stay set, if you want it fancier that's optional.

Honestly I don't like how bear Dyneema gets all those short hairs when it starts to wear looks like it needs a shave.
If you splice a covered dyneema line the way you splice sta-set it will not have close to the breaking strength it should, the buried core will slip out under load long before the line gets close the breaking strength. These lines require the buried core to be buried inside the original core to clamp down on it as load is applied.

This is exactly why different splices for these lines were developed.

Greg

Last edited by Stumble; 06-09-2016 at 04:15 PM.
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Re: Jib sheets

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Originally Posted by killarney_sailor View Post
I am a fan of the newer lines but I also have Lewmar 65 primaries and would want to be sure that a smaller diameter line would work well on the winches. The 65s seem to be designed for large diameter lines. I guess big boats in places like St Martin are using smaller Dyneema type lines so big dacron may not be easily available in the Caribbean.
Lewmar 65ST's are rated from 8-18mm line the 3/4" is actually too large for your winches (3/4"=19mm). Obviously it has been working, but stepping down in size to a stronger line would be preferable.

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