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post #31 of 51 Old 07-24-2016
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Re: Chart Plotters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathu View Post
I just hate it when I have to answer my own question. But then, maybe there just aren't enough small coastal cruising sailors here to actually help. I certainly know where to look: Amazon. I have both a local Maine Hamilton Marine, and national West Marine within 10 miles of my house.

I was interested in other people's solutions to inexpensive chart plotters. What happened was that others who don't mind paying $500-$3000 FOR ONE with all the bells and whistles, took over the thread---as often happens--I CERTAINLY KNOW.

I was simply expressing frustration for that happening. And the reality is is that there a not a lot of sailors like me here. But in the places where there are more like me, they tend to be very very cliquey and focused on one geographical part of the world(in this case California).
I answered what I thought was the question with a reasonable answer that a reasonable person would be able to understand. I wasn't ripped off with the hinges as they hold a 150 lb plexiglass hatch cover on our coach roof which my wife a I can stand on. I couldn't afford to cheapskate this part as it would have been unsafe so I replaced the original hinges which lasted 32 years with its identical counterpart. No one including I liked to spend more than they have to, but I wouldn't sacrifice safety in the guise of being a cheapskate.

For you 19 foot boat and your apparent budget I suggest you get a secondhand waterproof compass and secondhand waterproof phone phone and run a free version of navionics. That should be sufficient and keep your expenditure under $100.

For others who also read threads here my suggestion of a simple system which could last 10+ years my answer is appropriate.

I don't beleive you are alone in reading the thread as many of us including me started sailing with a smaller sailboat.
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post #32 of 51 Old 07-25-2016
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Re: Chart Plotters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salty Mike View Post
I must be looking in the wrong places, on a recent trip to the boat electronics store to talk about the 1995 model Furuno system on my boat, his advice was toss my old and working but outdated system that I needed a Cmap card for and install a new plotter at $1700 but by the time he added radar and a few other peripherals it looked more like $8-10K...... I left with a sad face.
First kudos on updating your charts.

Before you give up on your existing Furuno system consider contacting C-MAP directly ( Home - C-MAP ). Even if they don't support the old memory card you may be able to buy the digital charts and burn your own card.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathu View Post
But then, maybe there just aren't enough small coastal cruising sailors here to actually help.
There are plenty of daysailors, weekenders, coastal cruisers, snowbirds, and those who sail further afield.

There have been a wide range of ideas and possible solutions in this thread all based on experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathu View Post
I was interested in other people's solutions to inexpensive chart plotters. What happened was that others who don't mind paying $500-$3000 FOR ONE with all the bells and whistles, took over the thread---as often happens--I CERTAINLY KNOW.
You are being quite unrealistic. It has nothing to with "minding" about cost. There is value to the functions of dedicated chart plotters that goes far beyond "bells and whistles."

If you want people who focus on sailing smaller boats you might try sailFar.net. You may find however that they won't put up with the chip on your shoulder very long. An open mind and some consideration for other's view points will get you a lot more of the insights you say you are interested in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurum View Post
Last year I used my IPad with Navionics to travel through the Dutch waterways to the North Sea then down the Belgian and French Coasts, across the channel to the UK and later cruised from Scotland to Ireland. My iPad has a Lifeproof waterproof cover and is kept charged from the boat battery. It is the model with the internal GPS which has proved highly accurate. It is mounted under the spray hood using a Ram mount system on the sliding hatch so that I can slide it further in to either see the screen more clearly or get it away from spray. The same purchase gets its on both my iPad and iPhone. As someone said earlier it is possible to hook up a wifi enabled AIS unit and display the output in the iPad screen. However I found that an app like ship finder worked all the way across the English Channel (my iPad is the 3G capable model) and I was able to use the virtual reality facility to point the iPad at a ship and identify it.
I have had similarly good results with smart phones and tablets. Like you I appreciate the Lifeproof cases. Unfortunately they are expensive, limit the choice of charging cords, aren't waterproof when your device is plugged in, and the ear bud jack plug is prone to damage. I've sailed thousands of miles using tablets and phones; I greatly prefer dedicated chart plotters.

The Internet-enabled AIS apps should be used--if at all--with great care. Data latency is indeterminate. Usually its only minutes old but it can sometimes be hours old. In addition ships will only show up if they are within range of a MarineTraffic shore receiver. It's a cool capability. Be aware of the shortfalls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurum View Post
My fixed plotter which is 10 years old is on but not used as it is light years behind Navionics on the iPad. Additionally updates are very simple so ones charts are always bang up to date.
The Navionics POI database is not nearly as good as ActiveCaptain (AC) even in the EU. There are lots of apps that provide AC data. I use Navimatics Charts & Tides and am happy with it. I chose it because it was the first to provide AC support and haven't ever felt the need to change. The other options including Garmin Blue Charts, SeaIQ, and SeaNav are nice also.

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Last edited by SVAuspicious; 07-25-2016 at 05:51 AM.
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post #33 of 51 Old 07-25-2016
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Re: Chart Plotters

My suggestion of the Garmin Echomap 42dv earlier doesn't count? I paid $240 for it brand new last November, you are going to be hard pressed to find a cheaper level of chartplotter than that, other than an outdated used one. I use it on my small 24' daysailer. It is more than adequate, and actually has impressive features for such an inexpensive plotter. I also know when I was looking, there was an equivalent Lowrance for around $220 - I preferred the Garmin.

The Ipad suggestion is a good one too. An Ipad mini costs $230 brand new at Walmart, and will give you a screen as big as a $1500 chartplotter, with more or less the same functionality. You will likely want to add another $30 for the waterproof case, however.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathu View Post
I just hate it when I have to answer my own question. But then, maybe there just aren't enough small coastal cruising sailors here to actually help. I certainly know where to look: Amazon. I have both a local Maine Hamilton Marine, and national West Marine within 10 miles of my house.

I was interested in other people's solutions to inexpensive chart plotters. What happened was that others who don't mind paying $500-$3000 FOR ONE with all the bells and whistles, took over the thread---as often happens--I CERTAINLY KNOW.

I was simply expressing frustration for that happening. And the reality is is that there a not a lot of sailors like me here. But in the places where there are more like me, they tend to be very very cliquey and focused on one geographical part of the world(in this case California).

Last edited by Lazerbrains; 07-25-2016 at 09:54 AM.
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post #34 of 51 Old 07-26-2016
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Re: Chart Plotters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathu View Post
Any recommendations for inexpensive chart plotters? I'm not interested in fish. I really only am interested in a graphical chart GPS that shows where I am on a chart.

Would an app for my iPhone be just as good?
You asked for recommendations for inexpensive, and if it's "just as good".

You got answers, predicated on the lack of specificity in your questions:

If you wanted to be under a specific price point, then state it, as inexpensive is a relative term.

You didn't mention where you planned to use this, on placid pond, busy harbor, or offshore in wind & rain.

To the question is an iphone/ipad app just as good, the answer has to be as what?

As a $500+ marine grade MFD with updated CMAP/Navionics ?
No.

As an updated $20 paper chart ?
No

As good as a $50 used garmin GPS map 76
No

As guessing based on what you thought was the chart from memory or printed off on 8.5x11 paper
Maybe

We all use the IOS/Android stuff as backups, at home planning tools and redundant/mobile displays (e.g. Navico "gofree apps), so you can monitor the radar while sitting below.

Making that your sole nav tool, is about as dangerous as depending on cell coverage in lieu of a VHF.
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Re: Chart Plotters

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVAuspicious View Post
If you want people who focus on sailing smaller boats you might try sailFar.net. You may find however that they won't put up with the chip on your shoulder very long. An open mind and some consideration for other's view points will get you a lot more of the insights you say you are interested in.
I have a chip on my shoulder???? My biggest problem is that everyone here except for you has graciously answered my questions.

None of the other people who responded, even those who were interested in talking about $1700 units with radar etc, took the time to be nasty.

If I remember correctly you were the same person who told me that I was lying(you actually implied stupid, too) when I said that the USCG wanted me to switch to a cell, and that my 6 mile VHF wouldn't reach them---both of which were true. I've come to the conclusion that you believe what you believe and if you want someone else's opinion, you will give it to them.

I would really prefer if you put me on ignore, and didn't respond to my questions, but one cannot have everything.

I admit to having unusual questions, and to looking outside of the box for answers.

Yes....

1. I Have two calibrated compasses
2. I have charts for where I sail, and the skill to use them(took a USCG aux navigation course)
3. A Garmin GPS unit which tells me exactly where I am, and matches the charts, which I have put in specific longitude and latitude lines not in the original formulation of the chart. It has a very rudimentary charting in it.

Do I really need a chart plotter where I sail? Nope I don't.

So what I was interested in was something simple and not too expensive that could also give me a visual representation. The admiral is interest in this more than I.

And I got that in spades. And using the information here, I also posted my own response to my own question.

But if you want to keep harping away at it like you did the last time....BE MY GUEST.
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post #36 of 51 Old 07-26-2016
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Re: Chart Plotters

Quote:
Originally Posted by nhsail View Post
To the question is an iphone/ipad app just as good, the answer has to be as what?

As a $500+ marine grade MFD with updated CMAP/Navionics ?
No.

As an updated $20 paper chart ?
No

As good as a $50 used garmin GPS map 76
No


Making that your sole nav tool, is about as dangerous as depending on cell coverage in lieu of a VHF.
About half the folks I know out cruising the S. Pacific are using Ipads as the main chartplotter, and depend on them as the main navigation tool. That being said, they are running them with a Vesper XB-8000 Wifi AIS unit for the GPS, so the cost is not quite as cheap as just an Ipad. But the software and charts are top notch, and are much cheaper to purchase than the dedicated cards for Garmin, etc. You get a larger screen, and can run multiple Ipads for backup (one below, one on deck), with AIS alarms, etc. An added bonus is that if the ships GPS unit goes out (lightning, etc), the Ipad will still navigate quite well using it's own internal GPS, and it's own battery. Furthermore, these systems can integrate with the newer WiFi radar systems such as the Furuno DRS4W as an upgrade. The cost is less than standalone systems, the system is more versatile, and you don't have to run wires to everything. I recently did a delivery on a boat equipped this way, and was very impressed with the system. If I were going to outfit a boat from scratch, I would go this route.
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post #37 of 51 Old 07-26-2016
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Re: Chart Plotters

I just hate it when I have to answer my own question. But then, maybe there just aren't enough small coastal cruising sailors here to actually help. I certainly know where to look: Amazon. I have both a local Maine Hamilton Marine, and national West Marine within 10 miles of my house.

I was interested in other people's solutions to inexpensive chart plotters. What happened was that others who don't mind paying $500-$3000 FOR ONE with all the bells and whistles, took over the thread---as often happens--I CERTAINLY KNOW.

I was simply expressing frustration for that happening. And the reality is is that there a not a lot of sailors like me here. But in the places where there are more like me, they tend to be very very cliquey and focused on one geographical part of the world(in this case California).



Sir,

One might imply that the bolder text and capital and it italic letters you used in you responded were for the shouting emphasis of your points could be seen by others as having a chip on your shoulder and certainly less than friendly

You certainly were quick to point out that" I was ripped off" by spending what I did for my SS hinges and you were the wiser with your 14 dollar 316 stainless hinges, which of course would not fit the bill for safety on my boat and I wasn't ripped off as I got the cheapest price I could find to replace an original part with like kind

Had you maybe explained what you specific needs were, what your price point was vs inexpensive as you put it,and that it was for a 19 foot sailboat I'll bet the responses might have been different. M

When you post on here I find that the post will drift some and you can't "control" what others say or interpret you have said. My information in my post , I was trying to be helpful and it was met by a condescending post from you which others picked up on and commented

We welcome you and any other sailor to these forums, however don't get you panties in a bunch just because others don't answer or write what you don't exactly expect, be a little more tolerant. others including me learn from others here. What may not specifically apply to you might to others and someday if you buy a larger boat may apply to you

Easy does it


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post #38 of 51 Old 07-26-2016
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Re: Chart Plotters

Bells and whistles are fine... not always needed. Radar you can add... if you feel you need it. I sailed for years without radar and with I rarely use it! You don't need to interface speed and log and so on... but I suspect most plotters have NMEA inputs and can handle it... AIS and DSC comes with Horizon VHFs... You don't need a huge screen either because you can zoom! I picked up a B&G T7 at a boat show for about $700... charts included, GPS and you can add bells and whistles... I mount mine in a coach roof winch under the dodger and stow it when not in use.
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Re: Chart Plotters

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Originally Posted by SanderO View Post
Bells and whistles are fine... not always needed. Radar you can add... if you feel you need it. I sailed for years without radar and with I rarely use it! ...
In the U.S., if you have radar that works, you're required to use it:

11. Am I required to have Radar?

Radar is not required on vessels under 1600 GT (33 CFR 164.35), however, Rule 7 states that proper use shall be made of radar equipment if fitted and operational. In other words, whoever has one must use it. The Navigation Rules are not meant to discourage the use of any device, rather they expect prudent mariners to avail themselves of all available means appropriate...as to make full appraisal of the situation (Rule 5), e.g. the use of radar. At issue is whether the use of radar is appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and that is a determination made by the Master; and, ultimately decided by a trier of fact.

Should you be in a collision how would a judge/jury rule on your contention that the use of radar was impracticable (due to electrical drain, crew shortages, etc.)? Also, if a collision does occur, then there was obviously a risk of collision beforehand. Could the determination of that risk have been made sooner with the use of radar? It is difficult to answer such questions because the circumstances of each case are different.
...
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post #40 of 51 Old 07-26-2016
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Re: Chart Plotters

I have held off getting what Id describe as a "real" chartplotter for my Morgan 24 for many reasons including money and. the fact Ive been sailing Great South Bay long enough to intuit where the next sandbar will develop...or that the new soundings for most of the bay have yet to be done and set up on a revised south shore chart!
But my eye is moving toward B&G now owned by Simrad. For 1500.00 you can buy the Vulcan 7 package which includes the bright touch screen plotter/console and wind, depth, and gps sensors included. I like the way the system lays things out on a one screen display you can actually read in sun etc....If too rich for now the Vulcan 5 can be bought as a plotter and you can add whatever sensors you can as time goes on...
The software is also set up for the real navigational needs of sailors...its really cool honest!

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