Shurflo 4901-4202 pump firmware?? - SailNet Community
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 13 Old 08-11-2016 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
skipgundlach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 220
Thanks: 4
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 18
 
Shurflo 4901-4202 pump firmware??

Shurflo 4901-4202 pump firmware??

My 4gpm, 4-diaphragm, pump cycles for no apparent reason. The original pressure switch was bad based on the backflow I got when pressurized. The new switch changed the frequency and duration of the runs, but it still cycles for no apparent reason:

We have a large accumulator, and a substantial amount of water has to pass before it drops pressure enough to kick the pressure switch. So, if there were a leak, it would be substantial in the amount of water it would display on looking...

But we find no such leak (or any at all, for that matter).

So, I call Shurflo. The rep tells me that smacks of firmware; one of the reasons they discontinued this pump 4-5 years ago is that the firmware started to fail.

Firmware??? I just replaced the switch. No, it's in the BASE (the part you screw to the bulkhead or shelf) - despite there being no electrical connection between the base and the pump body, on which body (he called it the bottom; I guess he expects a horizontal mount) it mounts, sez he.

And the firmware 'remembers' what it's been doing, and continues to do that; in my case, due to the leakdown, is that it cycles often - if it's a firmware problem - that it's "remembering".

The solution, rep sez, if there is any hope, is to physically disconnect the wires from power; a breaker isn't sufficient - it still has a micro-amp draw if there is a physical connection (WTF??). Otherwise, even if we were to send the pump to them, there's nothing he could do about it (base obsolete? I didn't ask the question, as he was addressing the firmware issue). The parts PDF shows, but does not identify as a part number, the base. Seems to me that this would be a replacement item if there's something which controls the pump.

A google search for firmware and Shurflo pumps came up dry, so if there is such a thing, it's well hidden.

Has anyone else heard of "firmware" in a Shurflo pump? Or had our issue and solved it?

Thanks.

L8R

Skip


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
!
Follow us at
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

and/or
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
skipgundlach is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 13 Old 08-11-2016
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Nanaimo B.C.
Posts: 4,521
Thanks: 5
Thanked 139 Times in 138 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Re: Shurflo 4901-4202 pump firmware??

Most pumps hold their pressure against a flopper, reed or springy disk. Age hardening or a hair stuck in the seat allows bleed back to the intake side and low pressure starts the pump. This is just generic and is a general comment
Capt Len is online now  
post #3 of 13 Old 08-11-2016 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
skipgundlach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 220
Thanks: 4
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 18
 
Re: Shurflo 4901-4202 pump firmware??

Firmware, and ANY voltage/current present certainly rang as intensely odd. So, to not possibly get the same guy in Indiana...

Called the CA office, got Mel, who offered to have me call him back directly to let him know what happened.

His (and others here and there) opinion was that there was a bit of debris in the valves; in the valve segment seen in http://legacy.shurflo.com/pdf/Marine...-4901-4202.pdf there are inlet and outlet valves which I can rotate by hand; do it, he sez. Also wash with soapy water. Both designed to remove any small particles.

When I took off the pressure switch, I found a tiny speck of something under it; maybe a grain of sand, or maybe a tiny paint speck which somehow managed to get sucked up after flowing into our tank during rainwater catching, or something. So, perhaps...

But my next step is to take off the pump, again, take it apart, get the valve segment (#3 in the blowup) and wash it after, looking at it under high magnification before and after. With any luck something will be obvious.

But I am beyond irritated that I was told there was a check valve which failed, and could not be serviced, in the pressure switch by one rep, and Mel has never heard of ANY firmware in Shurflo, and denies there being a check valve, other than the valves which pump the water in.

Bleah.
__________________
Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig, KI4MPC
See our galleries at Web-Folio -- Your Portfolio on the Web!
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
!
Follow us at
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

and/or
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
skipgundlach is offline  
 
post #4 of 13 Old 08-11-2016
██▓▓▒▒░░▒▒▓▓██
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,645
Thanks: 11
Thanked 253 Times in 248 Posts
Rep Power: 15
   
Re: Shurflo 4901-4202 pump firmware??

Firmware, sure. As if there's a computer with reprogrammable non-volatile memory in that pump.

This is why you sometimes should record all your phone calls, because someone above that tech will be all too glad to fire him and send you a whole new pump, overnight, at no cost, when you explain that you're considering giving the FTC the call recording and asking them to prosecute for wire fraud and intolerable idiocy.

Rent the Mel Gibson movie "Braveheart". There's a scene where Gibson's men all turn their backs to the enemy, and in the finest tradition of "taunting", they bend over and flip their kilts up above their heads to show the enemy what to kiss.

That's the scene you need to send the Shureflo tech who messed with you.
hellosailor is offline  
post #5 of 13 Old 08-11-2016
Senior Member
 
colemj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: On the boat cruising
Posts: 3,116
Thanks: 4
Thanked 125 Times in 119 Posts
Rep Power: 17
 
Re: Shurflo 4901-4202 pump firmware??

Is this a variable speed pump model? Those certainly do have firmware and a microprocessor in them. We had several of them by Shurflow and they all suffered early problems that sound like yours - constant cycling, not coming up to speed, etc.

Mark

Dolphin 460 Catamaran "Reach"

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Current boat

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Previous boat
colemj is offline  
post #6 of 13 Old 08-11-2016 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
skipgundlach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 220
Thanks: 4
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 18
 
Re: Shurflo 4901-4202 pump firmware??

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Is this a variable speed pump model? Those certainly do have firmware and a microprocessor in them. We had several of them by Shurflow and they all suffered early problems that sound like yours - constant cycling, not coming up to speed, etc.

Mark
No, this is just a plain jane on/off pump. I never heard it at anything other than an increasing-amp-draw slowdown as it neared full pressure.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
!
Follow us at
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

and/or
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
skipgundlach is offline  
post #7 of 13 Old 08-12-2016
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 20,760
Thanks: 82
Thanked 586 Times in 562 Posts
Rep Power: 11
   
Re: Shurflo 4901-4202 pump firmware??

I had a similar problem, with a different pump. It turned out to be a small crack in the diaphragm that was hard to notice, without bending it just so.

I bought a new diaphragm and got it running again, only to have motor trouble later the same season. The pump was probably 7 or 8 years old (we do run it a lot). I just tossed it and bought a new one and I've sworn off fixing them. They are a wear item.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Minnewaska is offline  
post #8 of 13 Old 08-12-2016 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
skipgundlach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 220
Thanks: 4
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 18
 
Re: Shurflo 4901-4202 pump firmware??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
I had a similar problem, with a different pump. It turned out to be a small crack in the diaphragm that was hard to notice, without bending it just so.

I bought a new diaphragm and got it running again, only to have motor trouble later the same season. The pump was probably 7 or 8 years old (we do run it a lot). I just tossed it and bought a new one and I've sworn off fixing them. They are a wear item.
I got 7 years from this one so I can't complain too much.

It's obsolete, so I can't do a direct replacement, but the nominally identical pump is over $200 so I won't toss it without a fight.

Right now we're at the point of trying to find where there's air getting into the intake stream, and removing it again to resolve the small leak which developed after removing the valve assembly and clean/replace (but without resolving the backwashing issue).


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
!
Follow us at
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

and/or
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
skipgundlach is offline  
post #9 of 13 Old 08-12-2016
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 20,760
Thanks: 82
Thanked 586 Times in 562 Posts
Rep Power: 11
   
Re: Shurflo 4901-4202 pump firmware??

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipgundlach View Post
...It's obsolete, so I can't do a direct replacement, but the nominally identical pump is over $200 so I won't toss it without a fight......
It's probably the easiest R&R job on the boat, even with a different pump. I don't blame you for trying to fix what you have, just don't spend any money doing so. It's at the end of it's useful life.

Good luck.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Minnewaska is offline  
post #10 of 13 Old 08-12-2016 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
skipgundlach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 220
Thanks: 4
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 18
 
Re: Shurflo 4901-4202 pump firmware??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
It's probably the easiest R&R job on the boat, even with a different pump. I don't blame you for trying to fix what you have, just don't spend any money doing so. It's at the end of it's useful life.

Good luck.
I actually have 3 spares. Fortunately for me, one of them didn't require repair, and it's now providing our water.

But I've had every one of them in and out, some of them several times, so I 'get' the 'easy R&R' part.

I had all the parts for the repairs on the spares, and am starting into those 2 which didn't work.

However, the pump in question now likely needs a valve kit, as everything else proved out. I've had several conversations with Mel, the tech in the California office, and that's his conclusion.

However, in my reassembly after cleaning the valves, the valve body didn't fit properly into the drive section which provides the bottom seal. Very carefully doing it again cured the small leak I had, but suction was limited to a very weak start, and after that, none (based on finger over the pipe feel and sounds). That part doesn't make much sense, so I'm waiting for another Mel conversation.

But in the message he left a moment ago, when I missed his call, he said he thought I needed a new valve set. Pretty simple, other than that it's not in my hand!


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
!
Follow us at
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

and/or
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
skipgundlach is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
SHURFLO Aqua King II versus older Agua King - Accumulator Tank needed? Pamlicotraveler Gear & Maintenance 0 02-10-2016 12:22 PM
NASA AIS Radar problem and firmware update rrollins Electronics 4 01-06-2016 02:25 AM
pump for head won't pump out Sootydan Gear & Maintenance 13 05-30-2013 04:17 PM
cw manual bilge pump, bike pump type b40Ibis Gear & Maintenance 2 04-27-2011 08:26 PM
Brand new bilge pump that doesn't pump.... ugh Lancer28 Gear & Maintenance 6 02-08-2008 09:26 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome