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post #1 of 34 Old 11-04-2016 Thread Starter
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Haul out woes

Hi all,

I hauled my 1982 CS 33 last week to be greeted by this crack in the rudder. So, the questions come flooding in:

I'm told that CS rudders are hollow. I intend to drill a small hole at the bottom of the rudder tomorrow to test for myself and drain completely. If it is hollow I'm thinking - clean up the crack and glue and clamp it back together. Then fair - seal and repaint. I am worried that the rudder stock is corroded though. But I admit I'm new to this. I'm sure this is not a new failure - I'm sure someone out there has seen this and dealt with it in the past... Any thoughts as to further investigations or remediation?

Maybe the smartest thing to do is just replace or rebuild.
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post #2 of 34 Old 11-04-2016
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Re: Haul out woes

I doubt that trying to glue it back together would work. You'll need to grind down to glass and laminate over the crack with epoxy resin and Biax cloth and then fair as necessary. You won't be able to check the rudder shaft and armature without cutting large sections out and digging out foam or any filler.
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post #3 of 34 Old 11-04-2016
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Re: Haul out woes

The CS33 was certainly built with a hollow rudder and should be an easy fix if repaired as Roverhi suggested however, I have surveyed hundreds of CS boats and found quite a few that someone (fool) thought they would inject with expanding foam .... this creates a more difficult problem to deal with.

Although it is possible to have a corroded rudder stock it is unlikely in fresh water and hauled out for six months a year unless you also a have stray current issue.

The hysterical laughter you hear as you drive a way in your"new" boat ..... is the seller.
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post #4 of 34 Old 11-04-2016 Thread Starter
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Re: Haul out woes

Thanks roverhi! I did wonder about using a hole saw on my drill to explore. But then I though I have a big enough hole already! Why create more trouble for myself than I have to.

I don't detect any sign of decaying fibreglass, like styrene etc. I'm thinking the rudder filled with water which froze last winter and induced this crack.

Funny thing, the crack didn't appear until half an hour after the boat was lifted.
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post #5 of 34 Old 11-04-2016 Thread Starter
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Re: Haul out woes

Well, I like the sounds of that! Thanks boatpoker. I don't see any sign of corrosion of the rudder shaft inside the boat - I'm no expert but I think if there were electrolysis going on it wouldn't have to be wet, right?

Hmmm, I see a new grinder in my Christmas stocking this year....
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post #6 of 34 Old 11-04-2016
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Re: Haul out woes

I will point out that Boatpoker is a marine surveyor.

I would still go ahead and make one or two exploratory holes with a small drill bit to see if there is any liquid seeping/oozing out of there. The interior should be dry when you go to effect any repairs. Catch any liquid you can on a clean paper towel so you can see if any rusty coloration is there. Stainless steel can also rust when deprived of oxygen in a moist environment. It is possible, if unlikely but there is some rust on your rudder shaft.

It looks like the leading edge of your rudder split from the picture. Kinda/sorta where the rudder post ought to be inside the rudder. Did you every ground the boat on the rudder? Could it have been bumped during haul out? Anything is possible but your idea that freezing water inside the rudder is likely the real culprit - IMHO.

In any case you want to fix it, right? Get that grinder, chip away at that crack as you need to find the bottom of that crack where your new repairs can begin.
Epoxy is generally recognized as the best resin to use for repairs because of its superior adhesive qualities but you could also use Polyester resin which cures a bit faster.

Here is a basic "how to" website about using epoxy:
WEST SYSTEM | Use Guides

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post #7 of 34 Old 11-05-2016 Thread Starter
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Re: Haul out woes

Thanks CalebD,

Yea I saw boatpoker a couple of years ago at a seminar on surveying he did in Burlington. A gentleman, and extremely knowledgable.

So, I'm not the first owner of the boat. There are no signs that she was grounded in the past - and the team at haul out did an outstanding job in my view. Careful and professional.

I'd say the boat was well cared for in the past. For her age she has only, (until now) a few minor bruises and bumps.

I think your suggestion re a couple of exploratory/drain holes fits. Thanks for taking the time to comment. As far as fixing - no question. I'm learning as I go, but if time and a little effort and a little money can do it , it's a done deal.

I appreciate the link to west system too. I'll take a look later today.
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post #8 of 34 Old 11-05-2016
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Re: Haul out woes

If the rudder is hollow, what provides the support for the turning forces and how are the forces translated to the skin? Is there a large metal cage structure inside that the skins are bonded directly to?

Before going too far into that project, I'd first just grind back the crack a bit and see what it is composed of. It may just be fairing compound or a single layer of glass over the clamshell join and go no further in than that. As for corrosion, is the post and interior structure SS, mild steel or bronze? No problem with bronze, most likely no problem with SS unless this has been going on for years, but a possible problem if any of it is mild steel.

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post #9 of 34 Old 11-05-2016
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Re: Haul out woes

OK you can not pussyfoot around on this. As you are going to be doing some fairly extensive repairs to skin anyway get a hole saw and drill some 2 inch holes in the rudder. Rent or buy a borscope and do close inspection of the stock and tangs.

Only is you are fully satisfied as to their integrity should you fix the crack and make good the holes you drilled.

For real peace of mind split the shell and remove from the stock. West System has a how to guide on this subject.
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post #10 of 34 Old 11-05-2016
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Re: Haul out woes

By all means drill and borescope. You can buy one at Canadian Tire for about $100 or even less at Princess Auto.
I looked up my files ...... three hundred and seventy CS surveys (all their rudders were built the same except for the outboard units on smaller models), never seen a problem with a CS rudder stock or it's attachment to the frame. Splitting the shell would be extreme and I'd be very surprised if it was necessary. Remember guys this is a fresh water boat.

PS. From day one CS had a rigid QC program (unlike most others) and in my humble opinion although not without flaws are the best production boats ever built. ( no, I've never owned one).
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The hysterical laughter you hear as you drive a way in your"new" boat ..... is the seller.
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