Installing ST winches, do I still need cleats? - SailNet Community
 1Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 12 Old 11-19-2016 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Orange Lake, FL
Posts: 121
Thanks: 9
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 6
 
Installing ST winches, do I still need cleats?

I'm guessing the answer is yes? For safety/redundancy?
dixiedawg is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 12 Old 11-19-2016
al brazzi
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Lower Chesapeake bay
Posts: 1,972
Thanks: 0
Thanked 79 Times in 79 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Installing ST winches, do I still need cleats?

No point in removing them I guess, extra cleats are nice for tying up in a storm and such. Your self tailers should be fine without them.
albrazzi is offline  
post #3 of 12 Old 11-19-2016
Sailor
 
Gladrags1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Rock Creek, Maryland
Posts: 899
Thanks: 13
Thanked 38 Times in 38 Posts
Rep Power: 17
 
Re: Installing ST winches, do I still need cleats?

While your self tailers are fine without cleats, I'd keep them as they are good in case of a storm.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Mandolin
Bayfield 36
Sailing out of Rock Creek, Chesapeake Bay
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Gladrags1 is offline  
 
post #4 of 12 Old 11-19-2016
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 3,440
Thanks: 12
Thanked 76 Times in 74 Posts
Rep Power: 18
 
Re: Installing ST winches, do I still need cleats?

When singlehanding in light to moderate winds, you don't really need the self-tailer. In fact, using a self-tailer in those conditions is awkward and slow. In lighter winds, I use the winch without putting the line in a self-tailer. Then I wrap the line once around the jam cleat that was installed by the boat builder. It's quick, easy and secure. Jam cleats have no moving parts and never wear out or break. I suggest you have some type of cleat that you can use easily in lighter winds, when you don't need to grind the winch with a winch handle.
RobGallagher likes this.
Sailormon6 is offline  
post #5 of 12 Old 11-19-2016
Learning the HARD way...
 
eherlihy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Boston / Ft Myers Area
Posts: 6,627
Thanks: 387
Thanked 279 Times in 274 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
Re: Installing ST winches, do I still need cleats?

What kind of boat are we talking about?

I use the winch & the self tailers all the time on my O'day 35. I may not put as many wraps around the winch in light air, but the winches are how I manage my genoa sheets.

I use the cleats that were originally installed for the sheets when I tie or hip-tow the dinghy. I also find that the cleats are very useful when tying up in the slip.

There is no reason that I can imagine to remove the cleats that you have, you'll just use them for other purposes.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

USCG Licensed OUPV Captain, ASA 101/103/104/105/106/114/118 Instructor - Also certified in Marine Electrical Systems


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
eherlihy is online now  
post #6 of 12 Old 11-20-2016
Master Mariner
 
capta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: somewhere south of civilization
Posts: 6,939
Thanks: 135
Thanked 365 Times in 353 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Re: Installing ST winches, do I still need cleats?

We haven't used a cleat with our selftailers in the 7 years we've been sailing the boat. Not ever, in any conditions and so far we've had sail up in 70 knots of wind. They are just in the way and I fully intend to take them off one day.
The cleats around the cockpit are not large enough for us to use with dock lines, nor in any position to do so.
As the weather gets up we add more turns, up to six on the 65's.
I don't see how selftailers are any slower than manual tailing; the winch still turns at the same speed, you just have both hands to crank with if one uses the selftailing feature, which I assume would actually make the winch go faster, if one wished.

"Any idiot can make a boat go; it takes a sailor to stop one." Spike Africa aboard the schooner Wanderer in Sausalito, Ca. 1964.
“Believe me, my young friend, there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats.” ― Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

facebook.com/svskippingstone
capta is offline  
post #7 of 12 Old 11-20-2016 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Orange Lake, FL
Posts: 121
Thanks: 9
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 6
 
Re: Installing ST winches, do I still need cleats?

Quote:
Originally Posted by capta View Post
We haven't used a cleat with our selftailers in the 7 years we've been sailing the boat. Not ever, in any conditions and so far we've had sail up in 70 knots of wind.
Yes, but what about in BAD weather?? LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by eherlihy View Post

What kind of boat are we talking about?
Actually it's two different boats, a Catalina 22 and an Albin Vega 27. Both are getting their winches replaced with ST's at the Admiral's request - and because I got a steal on both pairs of ST's.

Thanks for all the responses! It appears that the answer is not 100% clear cut, and not "definitely keep the cleats" like I thought it might be. I'd really like to remove the cleats if they don't have a good reason to be there anymore. Actually they're already gone on the C22, and I'd rather not have to put them back - again, unless there's a good reason to.

Thanks again!
dixiedawg is offline  
post #8 of 12 Old 11-20-2016
Senior Member
 
pdqaltair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Posts: 3,537
Thanks: 4
Thanked 119 Times in 117 Posts
Rep Power: 11
 
Re: Installing ST winches, do I still need cleats?

I sometimes take the tails out of the selftailers and put them in cam cleats when sailing fast in gusty weather. I also reduce the number of wraps by one. This allows me to release the sheets more quickly from anywhere.

That said, I'd keep a few horn cleats handy. It seems like something comes up once in a while.

Writing full-time since 2014
Author--Rigging Modern Anchors

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

"Keeping a Cruising Boat for Peanuts"
"Faster Cruising for the Coastal Sailor"
"Singlehanded Sailing for the Coastal Sailor"
pdqaltair is offline  
post #9 of 12 Old 11-20-2016
Senior Member
 
overbored's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Dana Point, Ca
Posts: 2,568
Thanks: 2
Thanked 184 Times in 181 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Re: Installing ST winches, do I still need cleats?

boats built new with ST winches did not come with cleats so why would you need them. horn cleats are a good place to get lines caught on. sometimes when I need an extra place to cleat a line I will use one of the cabin top ST winches like a cleat.

"FULL TILT II" 2011 BENETEAU FIRST 30
"GOLD RUSH" PRINDLE 16
overbored is online now  
post #10 of 12 Old 11-21-2016
Senior Member
 
fallard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Mystic
Posts: 2,252
Thanks: 12
Thanked 79 Times in 78 Posts
Rep Power: 10
 
Re: Installing ST winches, do I still need cleats?

Quote:
Originally Posted by capta View Post
We haven't used a cleat with our selftailers in the 7 years we've been sailing the boat. Not ever, in any conditions and so far we've had sail up in 70 knots of wind.
Off topic, but what was your sail plan in 70 kts? Do you have storm sails?
fallard is online now  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
cleats Woodfinatic Gear & Maintenance 22 09-24-2014 09:04 PM
Mast cleats, how many preservedkillick Gear & Maintenance 1 05-28-2012 08:49 AM
Installing new Harken radial winches Irunbird Gear & Maintenance 6 04-28-2012 12:42 PM
Replacing Cleats wchevron Gear & Maintenance 13 04-02-2008 12:55 PM
installing Swivel Cleats - loads and mounting? Lancer28 Gear & Maintenance 21 10-01-2007 12:11 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome