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post #11 of 24 Old 01-17-2017
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Re: Hughes 38 Rigging

Teo absolvo, my son. There are no "meet hooks" on a sailboat. What you have are called "meat hooks" just like the ones used to hang beef in the butcher shops. As wire cable decays and breaks down, individual strands break and curl up. When you run your hand aong the cable, snap! you are meat hooked on the iron. The rule of thumb is first, use a clean cotton rag, not your flesh, to test the rigging. Unless of course you have run out of scourges and flails and require an immediate substitute.
And second, if you find even one meat hook? Condemn the rigging, then and there, all of it. If you can find one there are more failed strands, many of them INSIDE the cable where you cannot detect them.
While your rigging may get you home, you should consider it to be unsafe and if you can't replace it sooner, make sure to carry spare line and place minimal loads on it.
Insurers may sometimes arbitrarily condemn rigging at 20 years of age. Most surveyors will argue that 10-20 years is all you can expect, under the next of circumstances. If yours is original to the boat? Well past condemning age. Be cautious.
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post #12 of 24 Old 01-17-2017 Thread Starter
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Re: Hughes 38 Rigging

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Originally Posted by SVTatia View Post
She looks good.... but not really comfortable with all the white sand around it....
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Re: Hughes 38 Rigging

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Teo absolvo, my son. There are no "meet hooks" on a sailboat. What you have are called "meat hooks" just like the ones used to hang beef in the butcher shops. As wire cable decays and breaks down, individual strands break and curl up. When you run your hand aong the cable, snap! you are meat hooked on the iron. The rule of thumb is first, use a clean cotton rag, not your flesh, to test the rigging. Unless of course you have run out of scourges and flails and require an immediate substitute.
And second, if you find even one meat hook? Condemn the rigging, then and there, all of it. If you can find one there are more failed strands, many of them INSIDE the cable where you cannot detect them.
While your rigging may get you home, you should consider it to be unsafe and if you can't replace it sooner, make sure to carry spare line and place minimal loads on it.
Insurers may sometimes arbitrarily condemn rigging at 20 years of age. Most surveyors will argue that 10-20 years is all you can expect, under the next of circumstances. If yours is original to the boat? Well past condemning age. Be cautious.
I would think halyards would go before stays if it is working through sheaves. I would also guess 90% of us coastal sailors in fresh water have the original rigs. Don't forget we only sail 4 or 5 months a year too! Most just the weekends lol.

So my 49 year rig has 20 weekends x 49 years = 1960 days of sailing time that's only 5.37 years on the rig. ;-)

Last edited by North Channel Sailor; 01-17-2017 at 04:30 PM.
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Re: Hughes 38 Rigging

Well the rig is down now, so it is a good time to get the shivs in shape and make sure they will go all rope. Keep in mind you will likely need a new winch but you don't need to go new or even self tailing. I see inexpensive non self tailing winches all the time for not a lot.

With the rig down you could send the standing rigging to someplace like Rigging only and have it redone, but you may want to see it up to make sure your not at the limits of the turn buckles but you may want to measure it out before putting it up, lot easier to do that on the ground!

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post #15 of 24 Old 01-17-2017
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Re: Hughes 38 Rigging

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Well the rig is down now, so it is a good time to get the sheaves in shape and make sure they will go all rope.
With the rig down,...lot easier to do that on the ground!
That's what i think; with the rig down you should consider replacing the standing rigging as well. If you go with stayloc terminals, even if you make a mistake and get it too long or too short, its no big deal, just recut that wire.

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Re: Hughes 38 Rigging

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Originally Posted by SVTatia View Post
Easier said than done. I have wire external halyards and was thinking of replacing with rope mainly due to the danger of the winch... So far I have not have any problems and will be keeping the current system with half wire half rope. To replace, I would need a new winch mounted on the mast, perhaps new sheaves, also, now the wire is contained in the winch eliminating clutter at the mast base, which I like.

@North Channel Sailor - you have a lot of good work ahead before needing halyards, no? I was in the same boat so to speak a few years back, but I focused on the restoration of the boat and hull inside/outside before I launched and started thinking about the rig. Finish the boat and go sailing with the current configuration before making drastic changes, just replace bad stuff that has fish hooks, wire halyards are cheap.
Just saying... my two cents...
Good luck with your project. You have a beautiful good old boat to bring back to life.
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Those wire reel winches are fine, right up to the point they break your arm. I am not exaggerating those things have a very well deserved reputation for snapping forearms. If you have them, then they need replacing as soon as possible, or at least reduce your deductible on your health insurance.

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Re: Hughes 38 Rigging

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Originally Posted by North Channel Sailor View Post
I would think halyards would go before stays if it is working through sheaves. I would also guess 90% of us coastal sailors in fresh water have the original rigs. Don't forget we only sail 4 or 5 months a year too! Most just the weekends lol.

So my 49 year rig has 20 weekends x 49 years = 1960 days of sailing time that's only 5.37 years on the rig. ;-)
It doesn't work that way. If your boat has been stored with the mast down, and the rigging was sterilized before being payed out in an airtight room after every weekend then you might be able to argue this, but rigging gets worked at the dock, every time the boat rocks, gets attacked by pollutants in the air, grit, sand, water, it all adds up.

Your 49 year old rig has been work hardened past its service life even if it hasn't corroded. And work hardening is just as dangerous as corrosion to your rig.


What you have now I said suitable only for the recycling lot. Putting it back up I need the air is dangerous, and almost certainly leaves your entire rig uninsured (as well as any resulting damage) if the mast comes down.

Greg
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post #18 of 24 Old 01-17-2017 Thread Starter
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Re: Hughes 38 Rigging

This may or may not be true but I have yet to meet anyone who has changed their standing rig. Again we are in fresh water. Believe it or not, to the eye it looked great. I certainly would not venture offshore. The common practices here proves to me, for these waters, it likely will still be serviceable.

Last edited by North Channel Sailor; 01-17-2017 at 09:05 PM.
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post #19 of 24 Old 01-17-2017
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Re: Hughes 38 Rigging

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVTatia View Post
Easier said than done. I have wire external halyards and was thinking of replacing with rope mainly due to the danger of the winch... So far I have not have any problems and will be keeping the current system with half wire half rope. To replace, I would need a new winch mounted on the mast, perhaps new sheaves, also, now the wire is contained in the winch eliminating clutter at the mast base, which I like.

@North Channel Sailor - you have a lot of good work ahead before needing halyards, no? I was in the same boat so to speak a few years back, but I focused on the restoration of the boat and hull inside/outside before I launched and started thinking about the rig. Finish the boat and go sailing with the current configuration before making drastic changes, just replace bad stuff that has fish hooks, wire halyards are cheap.
Just saying... my two cents...
Good luck with your project. You have a beautiful good old boat to bring back to life.
Where are you located?
You can replace the wire with single braid exotic line for not a lot of money. The single braid is way cheaper than the double braid. The single braid exotics are stronger than equivalent diameter wire. Would probably have to be spliced and use a shackle as the line is really slippery and doesn't hold a knot well.

There are lots of tales about those reel winches busting arms, too many for it to be an internet falsehood. Be careful, do not release the clutch without a firm grip on the winch handle or without a handle in the winch. There were many in use without a problem but you have to be careful when using them.

Stainless in freshwater seems to last forever. There may be work hardening but it will be exhibited by broken strands in the wire. I'd feel safe using the exisiting rigging but there is something to be said for replacing wire that is that old. Simple job using StaLoks with the original wire as a pattern. Not all that expensive to buy several hundred feet of wire. StaLoks aren't cheap but comparable in cost to swages if you do the rigging yourself. Don't be intimidated by the thought of doing it yourself. The first boat I rigged myself with Norseman Terminals took us to SoPac and back and those terminals may still be in use on newer wire 40 years later.
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post #20 of 24 Old 01-17-2017
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Re: Hughes 38 Rigging

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Originally Posted by roverhi View Post
Not personally familiar but would bet real money that the masthead sheaves are aluminum dual purpose wire/rope sheaves.
I had dual purpose sheaves at my masthead. We had them turned and removed the indentation for the wire, so now they are rope only. Worked great.
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