Not Getting the All-Chain Thing - Page 27 - SailNet Community
 348Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #261 of 535 Old 10-19-2017
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Nanaimo B.C.
Posts: 4,469
Thanks: 5
Thanked 138 Times in 137 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Re: Not Getting the All-Chain Thing

Nothing like bc cabbage to foul an anchor. Getting it set takes finess. Anchor hits the bottom, let out chain faster than you fall back. Not in a clump. Then stop the chain with somewhat less than appropriate scope. You can feel if it has set.Then let out to suitable scope. Bottom texture has much to say about the learning experience. On the Kenai a set was only good for a couple of hours before the kelp had to be cut off.Fun in a gale. Once anchored behind a drill island in the Beaufort. Come morning it was many miles to windward. Mud like molylube doesn't grip too good.
Capt Len is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #262 of 535 Old 10-23-2017
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 407
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Re: Not Getting the All-Chain Thing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcb View Post


Okay, so help me to understand my imaginary scenario. We have changed locations, correct? I am no longer on the ICW, I am now on the Mississippi. 40 foot keel boat that is maneuverable enough to swing itself stern first into the current around a mooring in a 5 knot current is dragging anchor in 30 feet of water with exactly 30 feet of chain out. My windlass is jammed at the chain rope splice. If I put my engine in gear, my 30 feet of chain and anchor will be instantly sucked into the propeller of my 40 foot boat. Is that before or after it wraps around my keel? The sandbar is still a quarter of a mile behind me. I assume from reading how you like to keep your scenarios realistic, this isn't a gradual decrease in depth but this will be an abrupt sand bar ledge. Is that correct? Will the current that is 5 knots in 30 feet of water still be travelling at 5 knots when it hits the sandbar? I am picturing a large haystack and significant amount of white water as the river passes over the sand bar ledge. Is that correct?

I am curious how the facts in your imaginary scenario are going to change in your next response. Will there be unicorns and care bears for crew?

Also, while you are researching your next post from questionable sources on the internet, can you provide me with a link to a reputable source that says it's not possible to put a few revs on an engine to take the strain off a dragging anchor? Something other than your experience would be nice.

I do enjoy reading some good fantasy while I drink my morning coffee.
Your specific words were "hold zero speed over ground in 5 knot current". If you are holding zero speed in 5 mph current, yes your free anchor and line will be dragged under your boat.

BTW I specifically used the speed of 5 mph, not 5 knots.

Now you can rattle on and on about the details. But this is what you said.
Bryce

Last edited by BryceGTX; 10-23-2017 at 04:01 AM.
BryceGTX is offline  
post #263 of 535 Old 10-23-2017
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 407
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Re: Not Getting the All-Chain Thing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_L View Post
Do you know your anchor works well in this bottom? My neighbor here who likes to use less chain and much more line dragged in a gust.
If we were not restricted by the fairway I would definitely let out more chain in this situation, especially considering the gusty winds .
I said "after it sets". Most every anchor test includes a test at 3:1 scope. So this is not unusual.
Bryce
BryceGTX is offline  
 
post #264 of 535 Old 10-23-2017
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 407
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Re: Not Getting the All-Chain Thing

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottUK View Post
I would not recommend anyone to anchor with just line attached to a Danforth (or any anchor for that matter). I have experimented and it does not work for long.

If I can't anchor with my Rocna on a clay bed then I would consider that bed a sedimentary rock untenable for any anchor. I would reconsider my position if presented with empirical data to the contrary.

THere is no doubt that there are more boats anchored with only line and a Danforth than any thing else in the US. Millions of little power boats have been using this solution for decades. And still do to this day. These boats do not run amuck in the anchorages just because a breeze comes up.

And no doubt, Chesepeake with some of its clay bottom anchorages will cause your Rocna to drag. Other areas in the Chesepeake hold fine.

On the flip side, I agree softer clay makes an ideal bottom.
Bryce

Last edited by BryceGTX; 10-23-2017 at 03:25 AM.
BryceGTX is offline  
post #265 of 535 Old 10-23-2017
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 407
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Re: Not Getting the All-Chain Thing

Quote:
Originally Posted by travlin-easy View Post
In reality, my bit old danforth with just 20 feet of chain and the rest rode, digs into the soupy mud on the bottom of Chesapeake Bay and it's tributaries better than my plow that is all chain. It did a much better job on the sandy bottom of the Florida Keys as well. When the plow began to drag, I tossed out the danford and the boat stopped dead in it's tracks. The danforth weighs 22 pounds, while the plow is twice as heavy, but never seems to hold as well. If the danforth would fit on my anchor chock, it would be there as my primary anchor.

Good luck,

Gary
I absolutely agree with this.. soupy mud is great for a Danforth. Bahamas is also ideal for my Danforth.
Bryce
BryceGTX is offline  
post #266 of 535 Old 10-23-2017
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 668
Thanks: 0
Thanked 26 Times in 25 Posts
Rep Power: 11
 
Re: Not Getting the All-Chain Thing

Quote:
Originally Posted by BryceGTX View Post
THere is no doubt that there are more boats anchored with only line and a Danforth than any thing else in the US. Millions of little power boats have been using this solution for decades. And still do to this day. These boats do not run amuck in the anchorages just because a breeze comes up.

And no doubt, Chesepeake with some of its clay bottom anchorages will cause your Rocna to drag. Other areas in the Chesepeake hold fine.
Still waiting for that empirical data to support your claims.
ScottUK is offline  
post #267 of 535 Old 10-23-2017
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 19,974
Thanks: 82
Thanked 566 Times in 543 Posts
Rep Power: 11
   
Re: Not Getting the All-Chain Thing

Quote:
Originally Posted by BryceGTX View Post
THere is no doubt that there are more boats anchored with only line and a Danforth than any thing else in the US.......
No doubt? Prove it then. I don't believe there is a single example in our entire marina. Maybe there is an exception or two that I haven't noticed, but you have a long way to go to get to the most common.

I would agree it's common for little power boats (your description) to have a danforth and rope, but they would be the primary dragging concern in any anchorage around here, in my experience. Not that the danforth isn't a good anchor for certain conditions, but this argument fell flat.

If your objective is to get everyone to agree that the danforth is the best anchor, you must be delusional. That never happens on an internet forum. Ever.
MikeOReilly and CVAT like this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Minnewaska is offline  
post #268 of 535 Old 10-23-2017
Old soul
 
MikeOReilly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 4,016
Thanks: 249
Thanked 196 Times in 183 Posts
Rep Power: 10
 
Re: Not Getting the All-Chain Thing

I don’t really understand the dispute that BryceGTX thinks he is having. A Danforth is a great anchor — for the right conditions. Mud, sand, soft clay… basically any substrate where it can penetrate and set its flukes is where it will outperform most others.

But as anyone who has actual anchoring experience in a wide variety of locations, conditions and durations will tell you, a Danforth-style is NOT the best anchor much of the time. Harder bottoms, weeds, very soupy, or areas of rapid directional change … these are areas the danforth-style will struggle with.

I used (and still carry) a Danforth. I used it as a bower for many years, but did so in combination with a bower CQR. I carried both off the bow holder and would switch between them depending on my assessment of the bottom. This combination worked great.

A few years ago I moved to a new-gen style anchor (Rocna in my case, but I put them all in the same category). This single anchor covers pretty much the same range of bottom conditions as my previous danforth/cqr combo did. This is why it is a better anchor for those of us who cruise in varied locations and spend a lot of time swinging from our own hooks.

I also carry a large Danforth, a Bruce, and a large Fortress (as my storm anchor). All are great anchors, but the Rocna is best as a bower. If I was only cruising in areas of sand/mud bottoms with little debris or weeds, a Danforth could be the best choice.

And yes, always anchor with plenty of chain. Rope/chain is fine as long as you have enough chain. All-chain is best for the widest range of conditions as long as your boat can manage the weight. If it can’t, then all-chain is NOT the best choice.

In my observation, most small to mid-sized powerboats do use danforths as their bower. In my observation, most of these boats rarely anchor at all. The few that do, spend small amounts of time anchored.

Actually, it’s been a source of concern and sometimes amusement to watch some of these power boaters try to anchor with their tiny danforths in conditions that simply aren’t appropriate. I can’t tell you the number of power boats I’ve seen drag away, and this includes whole rafts them (why do powerboats love to raft so much??).

Here is a group of four that let loose on our recent cruise. The whole group was headed out to sea. Luckily there were a few people on board that sorted things out. I didn’t have to go rescue this group (as I’ve done a number of times).

bigdogandy, Minnesail and Noelex like this.

Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by MikeOReilly; 10-23-2017 at 09:17 AM.
MikeOReilly is online now  
post #269 of 535 Old 10-23-2017
bell ringer
 
Don L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Gulfport MS getting ready to head to Keys
Posts: 4,181
Thanks: 10
Thanked 119 Times in 106 Posts
Rep Power: 12
 
Re: Not Getting the All-Chain Thing

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeOReilly View Post
(why do powerboats love to raft so much??).

G]
Why because they carry those little tiny Danforth type anchors and donít know how to use them so it is better for all of them to raft up together to boat the with the less small tiny Danforth anchor
MikeOReilly and Deina like this.

Don't blow air up my rear, be useful and blow it at the sails!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Don L is offline  
post #270 of 535 Old 10-23-2017
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 34
Thanks: 6
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 0
 
Re: Not Getting the All-Chain Thing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnesail View Post
One of the things I like about my cheap little Lowrance chart plotter is that I can set the screen to fish finder mode and it gives me a good view of the bottom, including plants.

Once this summer I thought I had my danforth set, but it was mostly just hooked on plants. They eventually uprooted I started to drag.

The visibility was only a couple feet so even having someone on the bow wouldn't have helped, but once I switched to fish finder mode I was able to drive around and find a clear spot and get a good set.

Different circumstance, obviously. I'm in a 22' boat on a freshwater lake.
Were you able to see what kind of bottom there was too in fishfinder mode? I've been considering getting a fishfinder too lately but it's hard to narrow down which one I want to get...

Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk
neeqness is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Do chain hooks weaken chain? pdqaltair Gear & Maintenance 5 01-14-2014 04:30 PM
Chain to chain connectors on anchor chain kwaltersmi Gear & Maintenance 12 10-16-2013 09:24 AM
What is this this thing? rikhall General Discussion (sailing related) 18 08-31-2011 10:12 PM
Could be the next best thing since... GotTheNotion Gear & Maintenance 9 05-15-2007 09:57 AM
Chain Stopper or Chain Tensioner? 1970Columbia34 Gear & Maintenance 14 03-19-2007 11:43 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome