Not Getting the All-Chain Thing - Page 37 - SailNet Community
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post #361 of 535 Old 11-07-2017
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Re: Not Getting the All-Chain Thing

Seen the same thing in a mixed field of power and sail. Think the behavior is more a reflection of displacement v. beam, gyradius and hull shape. Those vessels both power and sail which had slack bilges, relatively narrow for loa and centrally heavy with weight low didn’t move much. Those light beamy boats such as planing, semiplaning or the fast sailboats (not typical cruising moderate displacement monos/multis) regardless of mode of propulsion sure do dance at anchor in a blow. Was next to a norhvn. Inspite of the high bow and much more windage than us we skated more than them but less than the go fast sailboats. I’m sure JeffH can offer a more intelligent explanation.
If I remember correctly Herreshoff said you could judge a boat by its behavior at anchor.

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Last edited by outbound; 11-07-2017 at 06:17 PM.
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post #362 of 535 Old 11-07-2017
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Re: Not Getting the All-Chain Thing

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Seen the same thing in a mixed field of power and sail. Think the behavior is more a reflection of displacement v. beam, gyradius and hull shape. Those vessels both power and sail which had slack bilges, relatively narrow for loa and centrally heavy with weight low didn’t move much. Those light beamy boats such as planing, semiplaning or the fast sailboats (not typical cruising moderate displacement monos/multis) regardless of mode of propulsion sure do dance at anchor in a blow. Was next to a norhvn. Inspite of the high bow and much more windage than us we skated more than them but less than the go fast sailboats. I’m sure JeffH can offer a more intelligent explanation.
If I remember correctly Herreshoff said you could judge a boat by its behavior at anchor.
I think you’re onto something OB. I do think most power cruisers have a harder time anchoring than cruising sailboats. One theory I have, based on many years of observations, is this is due (in part) to the typically-higher bows these boats have. This means most powerboaters should be letting out more rode to get the right angles, but too many do not appear take this into account.

Combine this with the typically higher windage (high freeboard, big bridges, etc.), and the lower lateral resistance these boats have, and it’s a mixture that makes it harder to anchor these boats correctly.

Personal anecdote (which proves nothing, but is one data point): A few years ago I was anchored in a smallish nook when a cruising powerboat came in. He appeared to be of similar size to us, but with the typical high bow and larger windage. I noticed he was using similar anchor gear (55# Rocna, all chain), and they were anchoring in the same bottom and conditions as us.

I watched this boat try and anchor for over an hour. Each time they failed to set BECAUSE they were not letting out enough rode. After a while I gently suggested they try letting out more rode before backing down. They did — and they held right off. Could have been luck, but I doubt it.

Later we got together, shared a drink and a few stories, and the fellow thanked me for the advice.
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post #363 of 535 Old 11-08-2017
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Re: Not Getting the All-Chain Thing

Mike have anchored in the same field as Flemings, Beowulf’s, Norhavns, and various steel long range cruisers. In many cases they are more stable at anchor than surrounding sailboats. Think you’re right a lot has to do with correct technique but also the near absence of roll when they put their flopperstoppers out. Still hope Jeff chimes in and gives us the real poop.
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post #364 of 535 Old 11-11-2017
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Re: Not Getting the All-Chain Thing

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Mike have anchored in the same field as Flemings, Beowulf’s, Norhavns, and various steel long range cruisers. In many cases they are more stable at anchor than surrounding sailboats. Think you’re right a lot has to do with correct technique but also the near absence of roll when they put their flopperstoppers out. Still hope Jeff chimes in and gives us the real poop.
Hey I thought you were headed south if memory serves the Salty Dawg thing right? Waiting for a window is all alright? Me sitting here waiting for my window looks like a sleigh ride might be on its way the 19th from the Sakonnet to Culebra. Anyone else up here looking at the same thing?
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post #365 of 535 Old 11-12-2017
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Re: Not Getting the All-Chain Thing

Got caught by life. Got as far as exit from NY harbor. Then weather and land obligations forced us to turn around. Couldn’t join sdr fleet before their departure nor switch crew for the more significant leg of the trip within their time requirements. Rather than being potentially unsafe will just ski/ snow mobile this winter. With a good attitude there’s always next year. Without you’re a statistic.
Thanks for asking.
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post #366 of 535 Old 11-12-2017
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Re: Not Getting the All-Chain Thing

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Got caught by life. Got as far as exit from NY harbor. Then weather and land obligations forced us to turn around. Couldn’t join sdr fleet before their departure nor switch crew for the more significant leg of the trip within their time requirements. Rather than being potentially unsafe will just ski/ snow mobile this winter. With a good attitude there’s always next year. Without you’re a statistic.
Thanks for asking.
Yeah you had to be on your toes and be ready to go too get to Norfolk this year. Honestly thats why I don't like those rally things leaving on a per-decided date. Me, like now boats loaded I wake up every morning look at Predict the wind and windy.com call my friend at NOAA sit down and consider them all liars and flip a coin!
Next Monday still has promise though.
Glad your safe.
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Re: Not Getting the All-Chain Thing

Best of luck. Be safe

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post #368 of 535 Old 12-07-2017
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Re: Not Getting the All-Chain Thing

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You can easily see plants and rocks. You can see soft mud. Clay and sand look the same though. It also looks ahead and behind so you can see if the bottom is flat or inclined.

Nice! Thanks for the info and posting the pic!

Seems like some brands/models might be more clearer than others. Wonder which ones are the best "bang for the buck" when it comes to clarity. I like to get the clearest one I can afford without breaking the bank. May consider a used one too for now.

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post #369 of 535 Old 12-07-2017
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Re: Not Getting the All-Chain Thing

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WLL and UBL for most all materials and components are published by reliable sources all over this great Internet.

Assuming cruising....all over this flat planet...to the edges....
Why are some boats hauling around 250' of steel chain?
Then they have a snubber system made of rope to subdue shock loads....well promoted as a must-have...

The steel chain is fairly abrasion resistant, provides catenary, but when it's straight on...it's what its strength is.
Your rope snubber may be weaker than the chain, allowing more give, or it could be equal to and even greater strength than the chain's limit.

If gnarly coral heads and and great whites with a nylon/poly appetites are below the limit of the chain, why would you want to carry that extra weight?

No anchors were harmed or mentioned. This is not anchor fight.

Does 250+ lbs of chain make for better dreams?

We carry 200' of chain and use a Maxwell VWC windlass with both foot swtches and cockpit remote switches.

The only mooring I use is my seasonal one... all cruising stops we anchor... Never use slips.

I got the boat with a plaited nylon rode... no windlass. I was quite a bit younger but even then anchoring "by hand" was an "effort" I could do without.

I then put on an SL manual windlass. Minor improvement, certainly cleaner hands! I was not pleased with the benefits of the SL... and when I decided to take off for 3 or 4 years of cruising... I got all chain and the Maxwell VWC. What a difference.. . more than night and day. No back strain...

I suppose chain can part if the load exceeds it SWL. I've never seen this.

I can use the VWC for line, but I have to tail it. Possible for a second anchor. I would probably use 2 anchors on the same chain... but haven't yet.

Windlass and chain was one of the best upgrades to the boat. Anchoring is easy and since installed 25 years ago I think I only dragged anchor a few... times... which is a good record...
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post #370 of 535 Old 12-07-2017
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300 ft of 3/8" G4 chain attached to a 44lb Spade using a Lofrans 'Tigress'..easy

Last edited by aa3jy; 12-07-2017 at 09:59 AM.
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