Large Blister on Oday 31 Rudder - Page 3 - SailNet Community
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post #21 of 25 Old 10-24-2017
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Re: Large Blister on Oday 31 Rudder

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Originally Posted by SailNoFo View Post
Again, thank you all for your comments. I went out to the yard this weekend to discover that the blisters have disappeared (which I gather translates to the blisters were in the paint* rather than the laminate). I will go out again in the next couple of weeks** to drill hole in the bottom of the rudder and measure amount of water that comes out. Is there a proper technique for drilling a hole in the rudder? I'm planning to use 1/4" drill at the lowest part of rudder going in from bottom (rather than side). I don't know the construction of the rudders but presumably I won't hit a water pipe/electrical line (or equivalent) doing that. (?)
So this sounds like it was just a big paint bubble. I would plan on stripping the paint off the rudder and apply new paint properly before launching in the spring.

I am one that sees no problem with drilling a hole in the bottom of the rudder to see how much water is inside. I've done it. Just need to inject epoxy (use the West Products syringes) and you seal the hole. And no, you won't hit any water or electrical lines.

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post #22 of 25 Old 10-24-2017
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Re: Large Blister on Oday 31 Rudder

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Originally Posted by eherlihy View Post
I am still waiting on @boatpoker 's "simple chemistry" explanation... (Do you know? or are you just "googling" to defend a position that you have taken.)

I am open to the fact that it may be inappropriate to recommend pouring EG into a rudder post. I am not a chemist. It is becoming clear that boatpoker is not a chemist either. I suspect that someone reading this thread may be, and hope that they will help settle this. To really answer the question, we would need to know exactly what kind of "urethane foam" (there are several) is used by Foss Foam as core in their rudders, and we would also need to qualify the type of Ethelyene Glycol (there are several of these too) in the antifreeze that I used.

However, these are FACTS:
  • Foss Foam states that their foam is not subject to damage from solvents.
  • I understand that Glycol is used as an ingredient to some urethane foams.
  • In the two years that my rudder has been exposed to it, I have not seen any indication of damage from the Ethelyene Glycol based antifreeze that was poured into my rudder post of my '87 O'day.

I do not recommend drilling a hole in one's rudder to let water out. [this is REALLY the last time I will say this, as I am unsubscribing from this thread] In fact, I advise against doing so because I believe that will assure water intrusion into the rudder, and lead to further delamination. Funny, but if I recall correctly, my surveyor suggested that I drill a hole in my rudder - eight years ago. I ignored him.

Getting back on topic, it seems that I was correct in my suspicion that the "bubble" was, in fact, in the antifouling paint. That said, I suspect that the rudder was improperly prepared for painting.

The next time that I need to clean a Polyurethane Foam Spray Insulation gun, I will heed bp's advice and use glycol ether.
While I do not have a degree in chemistry, the first 20 years of my working life were spent in the polymer industry. The courses I took over those years and what I learned in the business would probaby qualify for a degree.

Sorry, it is so elementary I didn't think a further explanation was required. Bottom line .... like dissolves like
(Google that phrase ) .... ethylene in the foam - ethylene in the glycol.

While I cannot/will not speak for Foss Foam I did just have a chat with Bob Walker (president/owner). When I told him what you were doing his reaction was (I thought ) pretty funny. Suggest you call him and ask him directly.
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The hysterical laughter you hear as you drive a way in your"new" boat ..... is the seller.
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post #23 of 25 Old 10-24-2017
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Re: Large Blister on Oday 31 Rudder

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Originally Posted by eherlihy View Post
I have about 10-feet of 3/8" OD clear vinyl tube from the local big box store (about $3). I am not 100% sure of the length, but you could simply measure from the cockpit to the bottom of the rudder, multiply that by 2, and then add the length necessary to go from the rudder post to the cockpit coaming. Add a couple of more feet if unsure.

I feed/drop the tube all the way to the bottom of the rudder post, and over the coaming, and toward the ground. While standing on the ground I apply a vacuum to the end (I have also used the faucet to push water through the hose, and into the rudder) to get the siphon started. Then I wash out my mouth with clear water (not necessary if I used the faucet).



In the past, I have drained over a gallon.

I did not bother to siphon the rudder post out this year (I may still change my mind), as I noticed that the rudder was full of antifreeze.
That will work if the rudder is hollow. Rudders are almost never hollow, they are full of foam.

As I said you have to drill a hole in the bottom [ use a battery drill] and see how much comes out. a cup is OK more than a quart and you need to have a look inside.

A little Marine tax will fill the hole.
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post #24 of 25 Old 10-25-2017
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Re: Large Blister on Oday 31 Rudder

So I heard back from Bob Walker;
Quote:
I would not recommend pouring antifreeze down the rudder shaft. I believe that over time it will melt the foam. I would love to dissect your old rudder.... We have been filling the shafts with foam since around 2000.
While he is not unequivocally stating that it will dissolve the core of the rudder in my '87 O'day, he is curious enough about the effect that he would like to dissect the rudder. This is not an endorsement of antifreeze. I will, therefore, remove it. I would love for Bob to perform his dissection for free... but I'm guessing that won't be happening.

By the way @boatpoker , I looked at your website and was surprised to find at least one unattributed picture that I took of my boat with the following prequel; "the resolution of some of these photos is not very good as I cut and paste them from my survey reports"
The picture in question is this one:

The image above is hosted from your website and will change to an error when you have removed it.

This is not your picture, you did not take it (and I hope that you have not used it in your surveys) but you are presenting it as your own and using it to generate business. This is not the first time that I have pointed this out to you, although I wasn't aware it was on your website at that time. Please remove it from your website.

Editing to add that I will remove the above when the picture goes away.


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Last edited by eherlihy; 11-09-2017 at 09:34 AM.
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post #25 of 25 Old 10-25-2017
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Re: Large Blister on Oday 31 Rudder

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Originally Posted by eherlihy View Post
So I heard back from Bob Walker;

While he is not unequivocally stating that it will dissolve the core of the rudder in my '87 O'day, he is curious enough about the effect that he would like to dissect the rudder. This is not an endorsement of antifreeze. I will, therefore, remove it. I would love for Bob to perform his dissection for free... but I'm guessing that won't be happening.

By the way @boatpoker , I looked at your website and was surprised to find at least one unattributed picture that I took of my boat with the following prequel; "the resolution of some of these photos is not very good as I cut and paste them from my survey reports"
The picture in question is this one:
This is not your picture, you did not take it (and I hope that you have not used it in your surveys) but you are presenting it as your own and using it to generate business. This is not the first time that I have pointed this out to you, although I wasn't aware it was on your website at that time. Please remove it from your website.

Editing to add that I will remove the above when the picture goes away.
Thank you for pointing that out. There are over 3,000 photos on my website, it gets a little hard to track sometimes. You found 1 of 2 that were not attributed. I have corrected the issue.

The hysterical laughter you hear as you drive a way in your"new" boat ..... is the seller.
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