What if No-Chain? - Page 5 - SailNet Community
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post #41 of 47 Old 11-15-2017
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Re: What if No-Chain?

PD,

I wonder if you could also not use a smallish bobber or float say 5-10' from the end of the anchor. It would not need to be big with LOTS of flotation, but just enough to raise the line off the ground say 2-3'. still at an angle so it is not floating straight up to be able to pull the shank up. I'm thinking if the line weighs a 1 lb, and you need a lb to get the line starting to float, hopefully 1.25-1.5 lbs of flotation would put it at the proper angle I am thinking of, 10-20 degrees off of a level bottom.

Not positive an air filled item will work. As I would think if you had to anchor in say 50' of water, the pressure might compress the item, say a small bumper to the point it would not float. A foam filled harder shell would be best vs softer like a bumper......

Then again, a combo of this and what you are thinking, could get the line off the bottom enough, so it does not chaff.

Another option to get the line off the ground.

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Re: What if No-Chain?

In anything over 5kts of wind, is any rope road lying on the bottom? I thought chafe from bottom obstructions was caused by swinging past them, like a big rock or coral head. If the rope was lying on the bottom, it would seem attaching a buoyant device would reduce effective scope on the anchor. Although, if rope is lying on the bottom, there canít be any pressure on the anchor anyway.

Also, anything compressible will vary its buoyancy, depending on depth, so that would hard to do precisely.


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post #43 of 47 Old 11-15-2017
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Re: What if No-Chain?

Minne,

My thought on this was more for the lower wind speed range where some of the rope might be on the bottom per say. The floating chaff guard that PD mentions, should do the same thing per say.

Then as you mention, if at 5 knots one is for the most part pulling on the anchor, then the float should not be an issue at this point. Hopefully the float will not be as mentioned, lowering the scope. My hope with the float, is it will not raise straight up, but just enough to get the line off the ground........

One may or may not know how well it is working, based on currents, wind,.........might be more studying than worth it.

Its a thought that is different.

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post #44 of 47 Old 11-15-2017 Thread Starter
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Re: What if No-Chain?

If the anchor is well set, 5-10 feet of rode will be underground with it, particularly in mud. Thus, there will always be an interface point, as well as buried shells and more.

On of the things that always concerned me about kellets is that they keep the rode near the bottom, where the rocks are. I've heard several world cruisers that use rope state, for this reason, that they would never use a kellet.

As others have pointed out, in 2 knots of wind the rope is off the bottom. It does not shuffle like chain, and if it does, there is no pressure (it weighs practically nothing underwater). It is only the possibility (likelyhood?) of snagging during a lull.

A 20' chafe guard with a tiny float at the end is interesting.

I've dived on a lot of anchors with chain. Time to investigate this.
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post #45 of 47 Old 11-17-2017
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Re: What if No-Chain?

pd,

The other thing I would probably do....

Being as the line with the chaff guard could/would be damaged at some point in time. I would make this maybe 10-20' section be replaceable via shackles at either end. Then have appropriate 3 strand, or I would probably go with one of the 8 plait mega braid style lines next time I need to buy line. Then a section of the dynema or equal with the chaff guard, then a one up sized anchor than I might need generally speaking. My boat for a 40 knot breeze is a 15-20 lb anchor. I would get a 20-25 lb anchor. unless of course we are talking race/throwable anchors, then stick with the 6-10 lb anchor relm. This is only good to around 20 knots or wind strength.

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post #46 of 47 Old 11-17-2017 Thread Starter
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Re: What if No-Chain?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sesmith View Post
Our Seaward 25 is pretty light. In the Great Lakes and Fingerlakes, where we live, I've always used all braided nylon rode with a 25' chain leader. No issues with anchor holding with our 25 lb Mantus, regardless of what we use for rode. We took a trip to Penobscot Bay, Maine, this summer. With the 10-11' tides up there and the prevalence of rocks, I added another 75' of chain to the leader for a total of 100' chain and 130' nylon.

Normally, with our shallow draft, we can usually anchor closer than boats we find in an anchorage when we pull in. We found that you don't do that in Maine, if you anchor at high tide, due to the huge rocks that show up at low, even if you calculated 5' at low.

We found our boat sails less at anchor with all-chain rode and snubber. I felt better about possible chafe of the rode with all chain out. No windless on our boat, so the extra chain came off once we got home. Rope rode is certainly easier on my back, and we don't need the extra weight in the anchor locker.

I think a lot of the all chain vs rope argument depends on where you're sailing, and the size / weight of the boat you're on.
That is a common sense response.

* Anchoring in very shallow water can be dangerous. Tide is one thing. On shore waves are another. Being too close to shore and bugs is a third. I've made these mistakes. In fact, I guess I've made most mistakes by now! That's how I'm sure they are mistakes.
* I did not intend to narrow the discussion to only centerboard and lifting rudder boats. Really, I was just thinking sub-30 feet.
* No-chain was offered as a discussion point, not an absolute. I have used all-chain and all-rope, and they both have strengths which cannot be denied. But they are not universal.

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Re: What if No-Chain?

Something I did NOT mention was anti-chafe coatings, such as RP-29, Maxijacket, and Rope Dip. These can increase the abrasion resistance of nylon by 10-30 times2. I never would have believed this is I had not done the testing myself. They do stiffen the rope--the better the protection, the greater the stiffening. But that would hardly matter for this. I've been using the stuff on furler line (RP-29--not as stiff) snubbers and dock lines for ~ 6 years. Amazing stuff.

I was planning on adding a chafe guard to the first 20 feet, but maybe I'll just paint it with rope dip instead. A good expereiment, since I have a can.

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