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Re: Is this just superficial damage to keel?

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Originally Posted by RegisteredUser View Post
I'm guessing this boat was not 'surveyed' on land.

Maybe purchased as-is in the water.
It was certainly taken out of the water. I payed for it and the surveyor.
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Re: Is this just superficial damage to keel?

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Yes, I am at a yard. I am going to contact my surveyor about it. I am wondering if the accident happened between when the survey was done and now. It has been several weeks.
Cool. Good luck on resolving it Chris.
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Re: Is this just superficial damage to keel?

I believe a Catalina 34 MK1 as well as MK2 wing keel is cast Iron. Not unusual to find rust on any cast iron keel. Sand Blast the keel, fill the voids with epoxy mixed with filler, sand and fair, put on an epoxy barrier and go sailing. Money will solve almost all problems.
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Re: Is this just superficial damage to keel?

Chris. This is fixable. It shouldn't be to expensive either. Pretty sure that the 90's Catalina has a lead keel. At this year of model, it is not what is called the "Catalina Smile", which goes back to the 80's and a design problem with the keel bolt supports in the bilge. It's probably a big ding.

Yes, have a pro look at it. Check the interior bolts also. Inspect the grid (in the bildge) for possible delaminations.You have good visibility to do that on that model Catalina. Look around the keel to hull joint area to be sure there are no other problems. Chances are that all those things are OK. If so, you're going to grind it to a solid base, then build it back up with epoxy, paint and go on your way.

Let us know how this works ou. Good Luck.
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Re: Is this just superficial damage to keel?

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Originally Posted by Scotty C-M View Post
Chris. This is fixable. It shouldn't be to expensive either. Pretty sure that the 90's Catalina has a lead keel. At this year of model, it is not what is called the "Catalina Smile", which goes back to the 80's and a design problem with the keel bolt supports in the bilge. It's probably a big ding.

Yes, have a pro look at it. Check the interior bolts also. Inspect the grid (in the bildge) for possible delaminations.You have good visibility to do that on that model Catalina. Look around the keel to hull joint area to be sure there are no other problems. Chances are that all those things are OK. If so, you're going to grind it to a solid base, then build it back up with epoxy, paint and go on your way.

Let us know how this works ou. Good Luck.
I found good documentation of one guys repair to a Cat 34 mkI.. smile or no smile it helps you see how the stub and lead interact and how leaking can work down the bolts to the weeping seam try "Cat34.org"
Good pictures. Although he chose to drop keel partially an check bolts etc his bolts were fine and he cleaned rebonded, allowed cure then torqued per specs and all was well. He then wrapped seam with cloth& epoxy and faired all. Done. Not that you need that but theres the the job nicely done if ya do.

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Re: Is this just superficial damage to keel?

There is a retrofit kit to address the issue with the grade of stainless steel nuts on the Catalina 34 Mk1 keel bolts. The original were 304 grade and were not sufficiently corrosion resistant so the retrofit kit includes upgraded 316 stainless steel nuts and washers along the the tools and materials required to clean up the threads on the existing bolts and help minimize future corrosion.

It is recommended by Catalina Direct that the nine 3/4 inch keel bolts be serviced every few years on those Catalina 34 Mk1's.

The kit is $156.67 however I would call them and verify that the kit is the same for the standard and wing keel versions and the quantity of fasteners required:
https://www.catalinadirect.com/index...-c-36-c-38.cfm
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Re: Is this just superficial damage to keel?

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Originally Posted by chris2034 View Post
This is a '93 Catalina 34. The keel is a winged keel. I assumed it was all fiberglass, but I do not know for sure (I am sort of new to this).
Ahh, well that's actually good news as that is an iron keel. So rust happens. The way these sorts of boats are constructed is that the hull and deck are made of molded fiberglass, but the keel, usually made of lead (but iron on your boat) is bolted onto the bottom of the hull.

If you look in your bilge amidships, you should be able to see the keel bolts that hold it on. If your keel had been lead...obviously it couldn't have been the source of the rust (as lead doesn't rust)...which would lead us to think the rust was your keel bolts corroding away severely, leading to possible failure. Which would be catastrophic on a sailboat.

Some boats have what's called an encapsulated ballast, where the ballast is sealed inside the fully glass hull, eliminating the need for bolts or joints...but if that ballast is iron and gets compromised and starts to rust, it can swell and start leaking rust out of the boat. These different types of construction all have marks for and against them.

In your case, get a very good look at your keel bolts, service as needed. The damage to the keel can be repaired as mentioned above.

Honestly, I question the sort of "survey" that could miss something like this. Was the boat even out of the water?

"Freedom is the increased knowledge of what you can do without." —Thoreau
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Re: Is this just superficial damage to keel?

You may want a different surveyor to take a look at that. It simply isn't possible that a competent surveyor could miss a keel stub crack like that. It's absolutely standard to look for, let alone grossly obvious.

If you have an iron keel hanging off a fiberglass stub (which I think is the case), the big dent above is in the glass. For starters, a surveyor should be looking for structural issues, like cracking inside the hull. However, I suspect you have a structural liner that makes that impossible.

Secondly, one would want to pull a keel bolt or two (all would be better), in order to determine if water has made it to the threads. In a boat of that age, you would probably want to know they are in good shape anyway, possible even replace them. At an absolute minimum, you want to know they are properly torqued, before you fix that joint. Now's the time to do it. The good news is that studs into an iron keel are the easier to replace. To do the job properly, you should really drop the keel, clean the mating surfaces and rebond them. If you examine them, they're in good shape and there is no water, replacing them may not be necessary. If they're borderline, you might as well replace them, to avoid the labor a second time.

It's not uncommon for an iron keel to show some rust at the joint, as flexing is going to eventually open up the surface of anything that ties them together. Your questions is whether that's all it is, or did an impact open up the surface bonding too.

A competent surveyor would have taken pictures, so whether that was damaged after the survey should be easy to determine. In fact, they should in your survey, so I'm a bit confused over this situation.
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Re: Is this just superficial damage to keel?

To properly torque the keel bolts though you have to first clean them, chase the threads on the keel bolts and use the recommended thread compound. You can't properly torque a rusty or partially seized bolt

The refit kit I posted earlier or similar is probably the safest route to go when taking ownership of a used Catalina of that vintage where you have visual evidence to show this area of routine maintenance has been let slip by for way to long.
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Re: Is this just superficial damage to keel?

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Originally Posted by chris2034 View Post
This is a '93 Catalina 34. The keel is a winged keel. I assumed it was all fiberglass, but I do not know for sure (I am sort of new to this).
If it is a winged keel, it is probably a bolt on. If that's the case, rust appears to be minor and just needs to be cleaned up to bright metal, Ospho'd and painted with a metal specific primer and paint under the anti-fouling. The horizontal crack is very common in bolt on keel boats as it's nearly impossible to keep the rigid keel from moving a little under the less rigid glass laminate. That crack is minimal compared to some I've seen and wouldn't be concerned if there are no other indications of keel flexing. reef out the filler as best you can and refill with a flexible material like caulk after ospho'ing and cleaning the keel to bright metal as much as possible, undercoating, and painting the metal.
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