Is this just superficial damage to keel? - Page 4 - SailNet Community
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post #31 of 39 Old 02-28-2018
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Re: Is this just superficial damage to keel?

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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
While I think you were referring to a different application, it’s my understanding that thread lock should not be used on keel bolts, rather anti seize. The bolts themselves can minorly stretch and need to be re-torqued periodically.

Here is what Catalina Direct has on this topic explaining why\where the LocTite is used and when\where to apply MareLube (see bolded areas):

"Includes nuts and washers, both in type 316 stainless steel. This stainless alloy is more corrosion resistant than the standard type 304 stainless fasteners that were used in the original boat. We also include a special formulation of LocTite that no longer requires a primer when both mating surfaces are stainless steel as was necessary in the past.

LocTite prevents the nuts from backing off. But perhaps what is more important, they will also prevent the nut from seizing to the stud over time. In spite of the LocTite, we replace our keel nuts every few years to insure they don't seize to the studs.

Dimensions:
Thread size: 3/4"-10
ID of washer: 3/4"
OD of washer: 1-7/8"

Includes:
Freeze Off penetrating lubricant to loosen existing nuts. Specially formulated to dissolve rust and corrosion.
Stainless steel brush wheel. Use with hand drill remove rust from keel bolts.
Rethreading die, 3/4"-10. Uses 1-7/16" socket, not included.
MareLube TEF to prevent seizing, galling, and corrosion of new nuts. Coat washers before installing and coat nuts and exposed threads once installation is complete.
LocTite to prevent the nuts from backing off and from seizing over time."

Here is the link in case some missed it: https://www.catalinadirect.com/index...-c-36-c-38.cfm
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post #32 of 39 Old 02-28-2018
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Re: Is this just superficial damage to keel?

Chris2034 – From your pictures, I cannot tell how far down the keel your crack is. The “smile” happens between the keel stub (fiberglass) and the keel proper (lead). The lead is covered by a fairing compound and gelcote veneer. This looks like the crack could be lower than that joint (hard to tell without knowing how far own it is). How wet was your bilge? That looks like a lot of rust from just the keel bolt washers. What you need to do right away. is join the C34 owner’s association (Stu Jackson is the secretary) and post your question and photos along with the year and hull number. Chances are this boat is in the data base. Membership is beneficial as it also opens up all sorts of technical documents and manuals etc. The website is C34.org. You can also contact Catalina Yachts with your question/photos. They also maintain a database of all hull numbers so you can get specific answers as to what type of washers/nuts were used on your boat’s keel. Your boat was designed by Gerry Douglas who is the chief designer for Catalina Yachts.

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Alameda, Ca.
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Re: Is this just superficial damage to keel?

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Originally Posted by chris2034 View Post
////My surveyor agrees with what others have said, that it most likely is not a huge deal, however, it will require some work.
I'm hoping he/she is right. However, I'm just not sure how they could even have a guess, with a defect like that. That dent clearly says she hit something.

Quote:
During the survey, we did open the bilge and inspect the bolts. Nothing looked off.
Rust damage, due to a failure in the keel stub seam, is not typically identifiable from the bilge. There is a great pic that floats around the forum of a member who dropped their keel and found the studs decayed in half, beneath the nuts.

I'm not trying to be dramatic and suggest I think you'll find it that bad. I hope not! However, there are some real warning signs and, if your keel bolts are original, it's time anyway.

I hope you get her on the water and enjoy her soon.
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post #34 of 39 Old 03-02-2018
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Re: Is this just superficial damage to keel?

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Originally Posted by chris2034 View Post
During the survey, we did open the bilge and inspect the bolts. Nothing looked off. But I am still going to add replacing the bolts to my list of to-dos.
Looking at the keel boats will only give you a false sense of security. The nuts have to come off to inspect. See this thread - particularly boatpoker's picture in post 33.

There are many threads on this subject...
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Re: Is this just superficial damage to keel?

Even taking off the nuts and finding good thread does not mean the keel boats are good. the only way to really know is to drop the keel.
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Re: Is this just superficial damage to keel?

That's a horrible sight.

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Re: Is this just superficial damage to keel?

Did some further reading on Catalina Direct and the keels may be iron or lead and the bolts used at the factory are 316 stainless steel J-Bolts cast in. If the keel bolts actually fail you have the option of threading in new ones with the gotcha that the boats will no longer be safe for anything but coastal or protected waters usage.

So buyer beware if purchasing a used legacy Catalina since if the keel bolts have been replaced with threaded in then they are not considered safe for offshore sailing any more.

Last edited by SeaStar58; 03-05-2018 at 08:07 AM.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaStar58 View Post
Did some further reading on Catalina Direct and the keels may be iron or lead and the bolts used at the factory are 316 stainless steel J-Bolts cast in. If the keel bolts actually fail you have the option of threading in new ones.....
That sounds like it could be conflicting information the way you have written it. You say that the keel can be either iron or lead but that the bolts are J bolts. Wouldn't the J bolts only be in the lead keel and threaded rods in the iron keel?

How are the Keel boats removed and new ones threaded in, if the bolts are J bolts?
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Re: Is this just superficial damage to keel?

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Originally Posted by midwesterner View Post
That sounds like it could be conflicting information the way you have written it. You say that the keel can be either iron or lead but that the bolts are J bolts. Wouldn't the J bolts only be in the lead keel and threaded rods in the iron keel?

How are the Keel boats removed and new ones threaded in, if the bolts are J bolts?
Catalina Direct says they are J-Bolts cast into both the Iron and Lead Keels.

You have to drill them. I did not get the kits so I do not have the full instructions on whether its drill and tap in a new location or what. I only read what was included in the overview of the kits and the warnings they had posted about intended use.

Go to Catalina Direct so you can read directly about the disclosures on both keel types and their various fastener kits to deal with the issues particular to the Catalina Keel Attachment.
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