Is the boat yard screwing you? stories - Page 4 - SailNet Community
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post #31 of 68 Old 09-09-2018
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Re: Is the boat yard screwing you? stories

Hey I was t denigrating sailors who are not DYI. There are many issues I donít feel competent to fix as I a) donít have the tools or b) donít have the experience. I have a good mechanic. It took a while to find him. Most of my experiences with marine trades is a positive one.

There are plenty of boaters who just put fuel in their vessels and turn the key or put the sails up. More power to them. I just am not that person. I also work a 60 hour a week job so I donít use the lame excuse I just donít have time. There are certain jobs I choose not to do anymore ( paint the bottom or sand it) because of my back. Each person chooses what is best for the, just donít paint a whole industry with a broad paint brush.
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post #32 of 68 Old 09-09-2018
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Re: Is the boat yard screwing you? stories

There's nothing wrong with criticizing boatyards that screw sailors. Editing out the name of Progressive Marine is pretty weak-kneed. There are complaints all over the Internet about that St. Petersburg boatyard. Web sites such as activecaptain.com don't have a problem with publishing complaints such as mine.

If nothing else, publishing such criticism will save other sailors a good deal of money. If I had read posts such as mine before I went there, I would be several thousand dollars richer.
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post #33 of 68 Old 09-10-2018
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Re: Is the boat yard screwing you? stories

Wow. Chef and some others on here either donít need sleep, have no other obligations in life or donít care how long it takes to get back on the water. Whichever it is, Good For You.

For the rest of us, I think itís reasonable to expect professional quality work when you pay professional prices. If my mechanic had the reputation of my local boat yard theyíd be out of business in a month. Being that commercial shoreline property is limited, itís a lot easier to be a crappy boatyard than a crappy mechanic. Itís unfortunate that some boatyards have this advantage and some are either too negligent or too greedy to be professional.

In regards to naming entities that arenít represented on here I think it would be fair to post criticism on Yelp and link to the Yelp post here.

And Chef, deriding others lack of time or differing priorities in life is crappy. I have a crap ton of things going on in my life and donít have time to babysit the yard, my diver or my mechanic. Go to the doctor and get your Ďlameí back problem fixed before y-u throw stones.




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post #34 of 68 Old 09-10-2018
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Re: Is the boat yard screwing you? stories

You wouldn't expect a boatyard to be staffed by people who are incompetent. Or management who doesn't care much about professionalism. Boatyards are notoriously very expensive and their bills for projects usually seem way out of line... at least that has been my experience. But of course I am simply one guy with one boat who prefers to do it myself and learn as much as I can about everything on board. I can't and won't sew new sails... I probably wouldn't do repowering myself. I try to do the diesel work that I can. I think sailors should be able to install all the "systems" on their boats and do most of the maintenance thereafter. Many "things" these days you don't repair... no one does... they simply bin it and replace it... such as a many problems with a pump. Sometimes not worth the effort and money to repair... Everything used has a service life. People should know that. Few things are built to last and work forever. And also we see technical progress which makes working stuff outdated and wanting to be replaced. We saw the evolution from stand alone electronics to basic networking of NMEA 183 and them N2K and one day there will be wireless. Boatyards specialize in mostly certain types of work and bring in sub contractor specialists and mark up the price of course... and prohibit you often from bring in your own sub contractor.

I've learned to avoid them as much as I can.

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post #35 of 68 Old 09-10-2018
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Re: Is the boat yard screwing you? stories

Quote:
Originally Posted by shananchie View Post
Web sites such as activecaptain.com don't have a problem with publishing complaints such as mine.
Not true..I had a neg. review excluded by the former owner of Active Captain, of one his ‘special’ marinas that paid lots $$$ to his site...
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post #36 of 68 Old 09-10-2018
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Re: Is the boat yard screwing you? stories

I don't have a problem naming names. We do it in public all the time, why is it different here? Because it's written or more people hear it? Seems odd.

The irony is how well or poor a business handles the public flogging. Defending oneself is dangerous and most often worse. Making a public commitment to do their best for the client is smarter. All businesses should be doing websearches for mention of their name. Just a google word search will get one started for zero. It's the time it takes to deal with them that costs money. But they have an unhappy client and should know.

I personally threatened a boat yard, on the Bay, with posting a copy of my estimate and bill on social media. I was given a high/low range and it came in at something like 2x the high. When I pressed, they finally admitted they sent a trainee and a supervisor to do the work and caved. They refunded me to the high estimate, if I agreed not to post. I don't think we should neuter this ability. Having a standing rule that one must establish themselves here first, or maybe provide some evidence and not just a rant, is a better policy.

I also think it's educational to others or simply cathartic to describe the awful experience, even when one doesn't name names. I think it should be up to the poster, within certain boundaries.
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post #37 of 68 Old 09-10-2018
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Re: Is the boat yard screwing you? stories

Think liability. Any entity can take the sites sponsors to task and court for allowing potentially libelous content on their site. Many business cover this in the fine print of the work/purchase orders you sign when you hire them covering this where you agree to be held liable for any damaging remarks you make to the media or on the internet/social media so site sponsors need to be careful about what they allow so they do not become the target of a third party law suite. Even if the site owner/moderator personally agrees with what you are saying their legal situation may demand that they challenge the posts to mitigate their exposure.

Welcome to the "Sue Everybody" Generation.
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post #38 of 68 Old 09-10-2018
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Re: Is the boat yard screwing you? stories

Libel concerns are complicated. Suffice it to say, simply posting your experience, as you see it, is not Libel. Otherwise, Trip Advisor and Yelp wouldn't exist. Each State can set nuances of Libel, but the internet makes them even harder to determine nexus.

Every Terms of Use, will put any of this theoretical liability exclusively on the user anyway.

Unless, actively conspiring to defame and intentionally telling falsehoods, for that purpose, I know of no case against a social media poster. Proving the merits of one, would also be very difficult.

I think you can post whatever your experience.

I bought the Mantus chain hook, the first was defective and I returned it. The second was made properly, but I find it's an awful product, hard to use and not as effective as they claim. They also did their initial failure testing incorrectly, for which I remain skeptical of the do over. It can fall off, although, ironically, if it doesn't, I find it very difficult to get off in my bow roller. Useless, over-hyped, junk.

See, not libel.


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post #39 of 68 Old 09-10-2018
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Re: Is the boat yard screwing you? stories

If any forum gets sued, it’s an expensiv pita. Any jerk can sue anybody they want, with or without strong merits. That’s why many websites that are owned by small business owners have terms of use that prohibit extensive negative posts.

The poster who complained doesn’t end up with an expensive bill for legal services and high blood pressure. The owner of the site does. So if you are, a user who wants this site to continue to provide you with a free service, I suggest you follow the Terms of Service that enable them to continue to operate.

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Last edited by jblumhorst; 09-10-2018 at 11:05 AM. Reason: Danged spell check changed some key words!
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post #40 of 68 Old 09-10-2018
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Re: Is the boat yard screwing you? stories

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
Libel concerns are complicated. Suffice it to say, simply posting your experience, as you see it, is not Libel. Otherwise, Trip Advisor and Yelp wouldn't exist. Each State can set nuances of Libel, but the internet makes them even harder to determine nexus.

Every Terms of Use, will put any of this theoretical liability exclusively on the user anyway.

Unless, actively conspiring to defame and intentionally telling falsehoods, for that purpose, I know of no case against a social media poster. Proving the merits of one, would also be very difficult.

I think you can post whatever your experience.

I bought the Mantus chain hook, the first was defective and I returned it. The second was made properly, but I find it's an awful product, hard to use and not as effective as they claim. They also did their initial failure testing incorrectly, for which I remain skeptical of the do over. It can fall off, although, ironically, if it doesn't, I find it very difficult to get off in my bow roller. Useless, over-hyped, junk.

See, not libel.
Yet historically its those Yelp type posts and such that have been getting people sued especially if the contract they signed had a clause against posting a grievance on social media. Your better off saying you prefer vendor X over Y instead of posting a denunciation listing all the evils of or vilifying a particular vendor that you had dealings with.

Whether they call it Libel, Slander, Damaging their Business, Publishing Unverified Negative and Detrimental Information, Violating the Terms of Your Signed Contract with them, Etc is really moot as it can all cause difficulties for the site sponsor/host and cause them to loose vendor support when someone is allowed to go too far in voicing their dissatisfaction with a business on a public forum.

That is why the host sets and enforces limits along with puts out gentle reminders of these things. Its Sailnet's Dojo as the expression goes and we need to respect that.
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Last edited by SeaStar58; 09-10-2018 at 12:13 PM.
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