Fuel pump (electric) and lines advice - SailNet Community
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post #1 of 12 Old 09-16-2018 Thread Starter
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Fuel pump (electric) and lines advice

I have a 1984 Panda 34 with a Universal 5424 M30 28 horse Diesel. I am the 4th or 5th owner. So lots of opportunities for POs or mechanics to have changed the system around.

When I got the boat the fuel system set up consists of about 7 feet of 3/8 ID rubber hose from the tank shut of valve, up hill to a Racor / Parker 2 micron filter. From there, a 3 foot similar 3/8 hose runs to a Facet electric fuel pump. It is starting to make funny new noises. Time to replace! This pump looks very old and the model of fuel pump which should be stamped on the mounting ear is not readable. I have sent pictures of it to Facet and they are not able to figure out what model it is either. They have suggested a 477060E as a possible replacement but use words like "probably would work". ( I don't like the idea of being a test pilot.......but ) After the fuel pump, another 3/8 inch ID hose runs to an engine mounted fuel filter. From that fuel filter, a very small hose that is around 1/8 or 1/4 ID runs to the injection pump. There is a return line to the fuel tank that is a similar 3/8 in ID rubber hose. All the hoses look a bit tired and bloated. All fittings are hose barb / hose clamp style.

So my questions are:
What pump should I use? There are lots of choices. Differing PSI ranges. Different minimum lift. (From the bottom of my fuel tank to where the injection pump is located is close to 5 feet in elevation!). The Racor filter at 2 microns might be a factor.
Second question. If I am replacing the pump, it would be an excellent time to replace the fuel hoses. 3/8 inch ID seems like more hose than really needed. So, suggestions on hose size and brand.

Anyone out there with a similar type system, size of engine, long up hill fuel pull, etc want to chime in???
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post #2 of 12 Old 09-16-2018
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Re: Fuel pump (electric) and lines advice

I just changed my electric and engine lift pumps on a Perkins 4-108 50hp. The previous owner used a NAPA electric pump and it was getting tired. When the lift pump quit I quickly became a traditional sailing vessel with 350 lbs of ballast in my engine space.

I used a Mr Gasket diesel pump from Advance auto parts. Does the job well
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/...FcpCDAods70Cbg

Also 2 micron is pretty restrictive at your primary, I'd recommend no smaller than a 10 micron. The secondary is usually a 2.

Thad
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post #3 of 12 Old 09-16-2018
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Re: Fuel pump (electric) and lines advice

Get rid of the 2 micron filter, replace with 10 micron element. 2 micron clog to early and could be the cause of the pump noises.
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post #4 of 12 Old 09-17-2018
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Re: Fuel pump (electric) and lines advice

The fuel filter at the injector pump is probably 10 micron.
Id go with a 30 micron in the Racor filter.
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There is a 50 micron filter (screen) in the Facet pump. For some reason, the "experts" suggest installing a primary filter, in your case the Racor, before this. I never bought into that. On my boat from the tank to the injector pump are: Facet lift pump, 30 micron primary, 2 micron secondary, injector pump. Works fine.

The top of my diesel tank is level wit the top of my engine, so my lift pump is handling different loads than yours. That said, my pump is a Facet 476459E.

Good luck!


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post #6 of 12 Old 09-17-2018
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Re: Fuel pump (electric) and lines advice

Unless your running a common rail system. (tier 3 or 4 ) the 2 micron filter is so fine that I am surprised that you haven't changed fuel filters every 10 hours. A normal filter for a diesel (non-common rail) is 10 micron. I would suggest everyone that reads this post to install a quality primer ball in the fuel system intake line to tank. Why ? because primer balls are a good tell tale sign for knowing a few things about your fuel delivery system.

1. when or if the primer ball become collapsed, there IS a blockage downstream from the primer ball to the fuel tank. The blockage could be debris in tank intake screen, tube , or any 90 degree fittings.
2. Pinched intake line somewhere
3. When you run out of fuel you can use to prime.
4. When engine is running poorly you can squeeze and provide more flow to lift pump and or injector pump.
5. Its a good indicator when your pushing fuel through your filter to know how clogged the filter is.
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post #7 of 12 Old 09-18-2018
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Re: Fuel pump (electric) and lines advice

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Originally Posted by eherlihy View Post
There is a 50 micron filter (screen) in the Facet pump. For some reason, the "experts" suggest installing a primary filter, in your case the Racor, before this. I never bought into that. On my boat from the tank to the injector pump are: Facet lift pump, 30 micron primary, 2 micron secondary, injector pump. Works fine.

The top of my diesel tank is level wit the top of my engine, so my lift pump is handling different loads than yours. That said, my pump is a Facet 476459E.

Good luck!
My electric pump came with a small in line filter element that I opted to not use. I did install the pump after the Racor (with a 10 micron cartridge) and before the engine driven lift pump. The lift pump then sends the fuel through the engine mounted (secondary) fuel filter and on to the injection pump.

The main reason to install the electric pump after the Racor is to protect the pump from any crud that may decide to depart my 39 year old fuel tank. I didn't install the in-line filter provided by the pump manufacturer as you have to disconnect the fuel lines to change it and there is no way short of the engine quitting to know when it's getting clogged. I have a vacuum gauge on the Racor that indicates when my cartridge is reaching it's end of life if it manages do do that before my standard maintenance interval.

I'm no expert but I am ABYC certified and work in the industry.

Thad
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Re: Fuel pump (electric) and lines advice

Tree-
Rashly assuming you are here in the Colonies: The major auto parts chains usually will lend out tools for customers to check their fuel delivery/injection systems. If not, it is inexpensive to buy a fuel pressure gauge that installs in-line in the fuel delivery line, so you can cut the old rubber line and install a test gauge, and if you bought it, even install that permanently later on.
That will give you pressure but not volume. To confirm the fuel pump volume, disconnect the hose, take suitable precautions for fire and vapor, and time it. Pump fuel into a gallon jug for 60 or 30 seconds, see what the pump output volume is. Might be a pint? per minute?
Now you'll have the actual specs for pressure and volume, and since the pump IS old, you might aim for just slightly more on both.
While you're replacing it, I'd replace the old fuel lines at the same time.
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I'm on my boat in Edgartown Harbor right now, so can only reply via my phone.

The 2 micron filter is the Kubota/Universal OEM spec filter. These have worked without any kind of issue for the last 8 years. I can only assume that they worked as well for the 25 years prior to my ownership.

The primary filter ON A FACET FUEL PUMP is built into the pump. No need to place a filter before it.

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Re: Fuel pump (electric) and lines advice

If you are having great success with a 2 micron final and the built in fuel pump filter i assume you are turning over the fuel regularly.
I may be wrong but i remember the factory Universal final engine filter being something like 20/22 micron...an unsual number/spec.
I have no experience with the factory filters.
My final is a 10 micron Napa 3390...have a large stash.
I turn fuel fast....too fast
I have the same engine..1985 but rated 24hp
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