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-   -   What To Take Into Account When Considering A 40+ Year Old Sailboat? (https://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/325872-what-take-into-account-when-considering-40-year-old-sailboat.html)

MikeOReilly 09-21-2018 04:18 PM

Re: What To Take Into Account When Considering A 40+ Year Old Sailboat?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dispatch (Post 2051554324)
What I mean is, the NADA Guide, is that what is used to give you the true value of a boat?

I don't know if there is a Kelly Blue book for boats.

I was told by a recent 'seller' of a boat I was interested in that in all his many years he's never heard of anyone using the NADA to get the true value of a boat, yet to contradict that I've been told by some that it is used by insurance company's to give the true value of your vessel if its ever totally lost in say a hurricane...http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/s...pspaniwiwo.gif

I have never heard of anyone seriously using the NADA guide to price boats. I did look up the boats I was interested in (back when I was shopping), and it never gave any useful numbers. Maybe for smaller, mass market boats, it might work. But not for cruising-level boats, and certainly not for older boats which mostly have no real operating market.

Brokerages who deal in older boats probably have data on sale prices. In my experience surveyors use recent sales of similar boats to come up with a value. Insurance companies probably have their own data, but in my limited experience they simply take what the surveyor gives them.

PhilCarlson 09-21-2018 04:32 PM

Re: What To Take Into Account When Considering A 40+ Year Old Sailboat?
 
Have a good look at the structual bulkheads if the chainplates anchor to a wooden structure. Look for indications of water intrusion and hidden rot. If the boat has been on the hard for a while with the rig down or slack those structures will begin to disintegrate when you re-tune the rig. Fixable, but makes for an unpleasant surprise under way.

TomMaine 09-21-2018 04:48 PM

Re: What To Take Into Account When Considering A 40+ Year Old Sailboat?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dispatch (Post 2051554218)
What are some serious considerations to take into account when thinking about buying a 40+ year old fiberglass sailboat (like a Pearson 36'5' for instance), in decent overall shape?



The good thing about an older boat like a Pearson 36 is that quite a few were built. After 40 years, all the problems inherent in that particular design, will be very well known.

You can weed out designs that can have problems you don't want to deal with.

You find this valuable info online searching owner groups of the design.


Once you find one you like, any surveyor that's worth his fee will also know these - specific to the design - problems. He/she will focus on those areas while looking for typical problems all boats suffer from.

My glass boat is 57 years old. I've fixed a lot of problems on it in 20 years, but there have been no surprises. I knew the design problems when I bought it thanks to this easy online research.

Dispatch 09-21-2018 05:16 PM

Re: What To Take Into Account When Considering A 40+ Year Old Sailboat?
 
In my situation, I don't want to go on what the seller is suggesting because it's too ambiguous, to base it on what the highest asking prices are going for on this very same model is selling for on sailboat selling websites.

As I was told the book value the insurance company will give you is all its worth, regardless of what the seller is saying he invested in it and now wants that money back, mostly though I'm finding its a case of what they 'think' its worth (guessing to the highest power in their favor), with no proof to base it on...

chef2sail 09-21-2018 06:07 PM

Re: What To Take Into Account When Considering A 40+ Year Old Sailboat?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Minnewaska (Post 2051554236)
How's the keel attached? Amazing to me to see how many 40 year old sailboats have their original keel bolts. Mine are being replaced this winter and are 14 years old.

I had a buddy with an older Pearson, but can't recall exactly which model. He's passed away. It was a ketch. He had issues with the deck seam separating from the topsides. I can't say if it was his boat, the model or a Pearson thing.

A boat needing keep bolts replaced in just 14 years......yikes
Many 30+ year old well made boats don't have this issue

It depends on the boat, depends on how it's maintained, depends on the build quality originally, depends on it's history of usage. I don't think you can give a cookie cutter answer based on age.

Barquito 09-21-2018 06:33 PM

Re: What To Take Into Account When Considering A 40+ Year Old Sailboat?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dispatch (Post 2051554342)
In my situation, I don't want to go on what the seller is suggesting because it's too ambiguous, to base it on what the highest asking prices are going for on this very same model is selling for on sailboat selling websites.

As I was told the book value the insurance company will give you is all its worth, regardless of what the seller is saying he invested in it and now wants that money back, mostly though I'm finding its a case of what they 'think' its worth (guessing to the highest power in their favor), with no proof to base it on...

It may matter what the value of the boat is perceived to be, for the insurance company. However, the real value of the boat is really, really simple to calculate. It is what it sells for. There are factors with the boat that can make the sales price vary by orders of magnitude (even have negative value). AND there are factors with the buyer that will effect the value. Where the boat is located, relative to a potential buyer (may take $10000 to ship across the country), what make and model, what specific equipment. The pool of buyers is certainly not homogeneous.

Dispatch 09-21-2018 09:13 PM

Re: What To Take Into Account When Considering A 40+ Year Old Sailboat?
 
Now, I'm being told by the seller that his insurance company insures for purchase price as long as the survey validates that price. And he's stating that the 'only' book guide to use is BUCNET, which he claims factors in actual sale prices received from around the country, that these reflect true market values and take into consideration age, condition, etc. Considering the source, I still don't trust it. http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/s...psd5nzecqq.gif

boatpoker 09-21-2018 11:12 PM

Re: What To Take Into Account When Considering A 40+ Year Old Sailboat?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dispatch (Post 2051554362)
Now, I'm being told by the seller that his insurance company insures for purchase price as long as the survey validates that price. And he's stating that the 'only' book guide to use is BUCNET, which he claims factors in actual sale prices received from around the country, that these reflect true market values and take into consideration age, condition, etc. Considering the source, I still don't trust it. http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/s...psd5nzecqq.gif

You are correct. Do not trust BUC or NADA, their values are completely out to lunch.

The best is soldboats.com. Yachtworld requires all brokers who list boats there to report actual sales numbers which are then collated and published on soldboats.

Some will say that the brokers fudge the numbers but I've been using it to do valuation for a couple of decades and have seen no incidences of that. Unfortunately it costs around $600/yr. for access to that website and the actual numbers reported bear no relationship to the numbers published by BUC and NADA.

PS. Neither BUC nor NADA has access to actual sales data, they use depreciation tables.

Sal Paradise 09-22-2018 07:54 AM

Re: What To Take Into Account When Considering A 40+ Year Old Sailboat?
 
Focus on the essential mechanical items; keel bolts can be checked by lifting inspection plates in the floor. Check rudder post for slop. Check keel and rudder for damage. " Sound" the hull and deck and look for any hollow or delaminated sections. Checking the engine should be easy enough to research. Check the condition of standing and running rigging visually. Inspect sails. it goes on and on.

SanderO 09-22-2018 08:11 AM

Re: What To Take Into Account When Considering A 40+ Year Old Sailboat?
 
No matter how experience with boats you are it's best to get a surveyor to evaluate the boat.

I don't get the comment about keel bolts. If there is signs of corrosion it may be a concern. But it also depends on the size and number of bolts.

Obviously things which wear over time with use are

power train - engine transmission, stuffing box / dripless shaft seal and cutlass bearing

steering system - rudder, linkage rods or chain, pedestal, bearings, auto pilot and so forth

sails

standing and running rigging including roller furling

deck hardware including ground tackle

look for signs of de-lamination, soft decks, water intrusion

upholstery, cockpit cushions, canvas items like dodgers and binimis

age and generation of electronics

electrical system, wiring and connector condition, lamping of lighting, battery condition

general GRP and gelcoat and wood cosmetics


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