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OldMan-theSea 06-10-2019 02:22 PM

Re: What To Take Into Account When Considering A 40+ Year Old Sailboat?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dispatch (Post 2051607672)

I'm finding Canadian boats are far superior in overall good condition and cleanliness. https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...080&fit=bounds

Canadian boats spend half the year out of the water. Florida boats stay in the water year round and are only pulled when they need a bottom job, etc. That means that when 'life happens" the northern boat has only half the probability of being in the water to deteriorate rapidly. Plus, since they're pulled every year any otherwise invisible problems can be seen and addressed. Plus, some jobs are easier to do while out of the water even if not impossible in the water. Plus, while your boat is on the hard the only way to "enjoy" it is to go do some projects that would be unimportant if you could actually go sailing.

paulinnanaimo 06-10-2019 02:43 PM

Re: What To Take Into Account When Considering A 40+ Year Old Sailboat?
 
Canadian 'Great Lakes' boats and Canadian 'Coastal' boats lead very different lives.

MikeOReilly 06-10-2019 03:57 PM

Re: What To Take Into Account When Considering A 40+ Year Old Sailboat?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by paulinnanaimo (Post 2051607834)
Canadian 'Great Lakes' boats and Canadian 'Coastal' boats lead very different lives.

Good point. And there are lots of American Great Lakes boats that live the same kind of pattern. Heck, most boats on the north east coast of Canada and the USA get hauled out for winter each year.

cdy 06-10-2019 03:58 PM

Re: What To Take Into Account When Considering A 40+ Year Old Sailboat?
 
Used sailboat buying in Florida is different - especially on the lower end ( under $15K) some sellers aren't realistic and won't see the light but many just want to dump the boat to get out of slip payments and insurance - its not rocket science - you will get a feel for how desperate the seller is when talking to him - not saying you are going to pick up a boat at 20 cents on the dollar - but 1/2 the asking price is possible - my latest boat started off at $15K - after being on the market for about a year - I got it for $8K with a new WM dinghy thrown in - again depends on where you are - in Florida there are shrinking number of slips available - more restrictive anchorages and prices just keep going up ( for dockage) , the people left in the market are ones that love sailboats, looking for cheap housing or maybe are young have a year plan to go cruising then back to real life. There are still too many older sailboats sitting in marinas not being used - probably 50 -70% fall into this catagory in the middle class marinas - mostly owned by aging baby boomers - at some time they are all going to be dead or not physically fit to sail - the family wont want the boat - don't think there are enough buyers out there for older sailboats to keep pricing from collapsing even more - unless of course we can get the Chinese interested in the sport/lifestyle - 1.5 billion of them

SchockT 06-10-2019 10:07 PM

Re: What To Take Into Account When Considering A 40+ Year Old Sailboat?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OldMan-theSea (Post 2051607826)
Canadian boats spend half the year out of the water. Florida boats stay in the water year round and are only pulled when they need a bottom job, etc. That means that when 'life happens" the northern boat has only half the probability of being in the water to deteriorate rapidly. Plus, since they're pulled every year any otherwise invisible problems can be seen and addressed. Plus, some jobs are easier to do while out of the water even if not impossible in the water. Plus, while your boat is on the hard the only way to "enjoy" it is to go do some projects that would be unimportant if you could actually go sailing.

On the west coast of Canada boats live in the water year round. I dont think being in the water year round is what causes boats to deteriorate more rapidly. The big thing is the UV exposure. People quite often buy bargain boats from Florida and bring them up here. A friend brought a 2010 Bavaria up and the canvas on the boat was destroyed, the wood cockpit table was in rough shape, and all the gelcoat looked like I would expect on a 30 year old boat around here. My boat was a local boat of around the same age looks brand new in comparison. The Dodger is only slightly faded and the gelcoat is still like new.

Of course even in the water most boats spend their winter months covered up in their slips so are only getting used 6-8 months of the year.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

SchockT 06-11-2019 10:33 AM

Re: What To Take Into Account When Considering A 40+ Year Old Sailboat?
 
We don't know the particulars of the deals that fell through for the OP. There are 2 sides to every story. What exactly was found by the surveyor that justified an price adjustment? How much was he trying to grind the price? Was the price already on the low side? Without details like that we can't cast judgement on whether it was the buyer or the seller being unreasonable.

We all know brokers use old photos or sistership photos a lot, for various reasons. If I were going to travel long distance to see a boat I would certainly make sure the broker sent me current condition photos. I might even ask him to go down to the boat and give me a live virtual tour using Messenger or some other video conferencing app. We also have to acknowledge that if the boat has been on the market for a while the boat may have been all clean and polished when listed, but has been neglected since. If I were the seller and I had a buyer coming from out of town I would clean it up, but not everyone thinks that way. Hell, some people don't even declutter before they take pics!

A buyer is also at a disadvantage at the negotiating table if the seller knows that you want their particular model boat and are travelling great distances to find it. Naturally they are going to drive a harder bargain. That doesnt necessarily make them corrupt or fraudulent. (Again, I dont know the particulars of the OP's cases, I'm speaking generally) they know your options are limited, and negotiate accordingly.

My advice to the OP is to be patient, and gather as much info as you can from home before travelling. Monitor the boats that you were unsuccessful on. If they continue to languish on the market then revisit them later, and you may find the owners will be more flexible and you will get your price. If they sell, then perhaps the price the owner was looking for wasn't so unreasonable after all.

In the meantime, don't take anything personally and don't burn bridges. If you cant arrive at an agreement just tell him to contact you if he changes his mind and walk away. He may just do that. If you get angry and call him a fraud etc that is far less likely.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

Jeff_H 06-11-2019 11:16 AM

Re: What To Take Into Account When Considering A 40+ Year Old Sailboat?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dispatch (Post 2051607972)
On the vessel I'm looking for I've decided a Morgan 43 is a good all around fit, something no older than (unless exceptional), mid 80's, budget 'about' $50k tops (that way it leaves me a little extra to do small fixes).

I'm amazed how difficult it is to simply find one that has simply been kept clean, inside and out.

Being in Florida its extremely hard to drive the many states north but I have traveled as far north as Wisconsin, Canada is a bit more difficult but seems they hold the 'ark of the covenant' for sailboats. https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...080&fit=bounds

I know the Morgan 43 pretty well. The Morgan 43 was a very nice boat for its day. They sail pretty well and are pretty well built. The downside is that the vast majority of them went into charter and came out of charter really beaten to death. (I helped an acquaintance put one back together plus there is one at the dock next to mine that belongs to a friend of mine.) The charter versions were greatly cheapened up in terms of how they were built and how they were equipped and what they cost new.

In good shape and well equipped non-charter versions of this boats can sell in the $80-100K range. One that is selling for less than $50,000 is likely to be a former charter boat that is in rough shape and in need $30-50K to put back into shape.

I would suggest that you might want to add the Kelly Peterson 44 to your list since these are similar in concept, were slightly better built, and almost none went into charter. The key on those are to find one that has had the teak decks removed and glassed over, or one of the few built without the teak decks. They often actually sell for less than one with teak decks in reasonably sound condition, yet are less expensive boats to own.

But frankly any boat this age will show wear and tear or else at over 40 plus feet be way outside of your price range.

Jeff

OldMan-theSea 06-11-2019 11:58 AM

Re: What To Take Into Account When Considering A 40+ Year Old Sailboat?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SchockT (Post 2051607942)
On the west coast of Canada boats live in the water year round. I dont think being in the water year round is what causes boats to deteriorate more rapidly. The big thing is the UV exposure. People quite often buy bargain boats from Florida and bring them up here. A friend brought a 2010 Bavaria up and the canvas on the boat was destroyed, the wood cockpit table was in rough shape, and all the gelcoat looked like I would expect on a 30 year old boat around here. My boat was a local boat of around the same age looks brand new in comparison. The Dodger is only slightly faded and the gelcoat is still like new.

Of course even in the water most boats spend their winter months covered up in their slips so are only getting used 6-8 months of the year.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk


Agree about the UV. I never thought of boats being covered while in the water, except powerboats in a boathouse (but no "cover").

pcmm 06-12-2019 10:21 AM

Re: What To Take Into Account When Considering A 40+ Year Old Sailboat?
 
As an owner of a 41YO boat (Morgan OI 41) there are a lot of things to consider. Materials have changed a lot, electricial, plumbing, engines, rigging. All need to be inspected and accounted for Any 40+ yo boat is going to need some combination of work and a lot will depend on how handy you are and your time/drive to get it done! Sometimes I feel like I'm doing a full restoration with mine. Costs are a big factor but I think number one is how wiling are you to pick up a grinder and just get in there and do the work. If you need to hire it out, forget it . It will be unaffordable! for example I've had to patch several of my bulkheads from previous cut outs, some rot, etc. Back in the 70's Morgan used ACX exterior grade ply for all the bulkheads and then skinned them with thin Teak ply for appearances. (I have a bulkhead where I can see the ACX stamp on the ply!) just means you have to be mindful when doing repairs (no pointin patching exterior grade ply with a marine ply patch!) If you enjoy the work (like I do) then its no big deal just part of ownership, but if you like the nice shinny bobbles then don't buy an old boat! On the up side, because the tech was lower back then the glass tends to be thicker. The fiberglass at my hull deck joint is over 1/2" thick on the hull and over 3/8" on the deck! ( makes some fittings a bit of a pain to fit like eck glands ,e tc.)

MarkofSeaLife 06-12-2019 04:59 PM

Re: What To Take Into Account When Considering A 40+ Year Old Sailboat?
 
Hi folks,

I removed 35 or 40 posts that were argumentative.

We really think there's great stuff in the substantive discussion on this thread.



So basically there's 2 options: Keep the really good stuff going.... OR Have your post deleted :)


Thanks,


Frank <--- the incognito moderator :)


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