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post #21 of 68 Old 10-25-2018 Thread Starter
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Re: Sailing kayak

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Originally Posted by paulk View Post
How do you see where you're going? From the way the sail is spread, it looks like you could simply take one of those freestanding tents with the fiberglass support rods (which you were going to take with you anyway, for shelter on your camping adventure...) and set it up on the foredeck with the top pointing forward and some lines holding the bottom edges aft.
So in this video, I am the bow guy. The other guy is steering in the stern. Big boat (22ft) so its not a big hinderance to his view.

I agree, the sail isn't high tech, but it is pretty quick.

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Re: Sailing kayak

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That's one of the things I like about the kayak sailor one, is that it folds forward out of the way. They have a genoa and and it looks like it will have good upwind performance. I did a lot of research back in the day, and it seems like a really good call. I am almost talking myself into it...
Really nice rigs with a jib to help upwind. I consider that to be the next level. Adding lee boards, jib and amas would imprive sailing characteristics immensely. I might end up going that way, but I need to experiment and learn the feel first. I almost feel like amas would be like training wheels.

Hard to get good intel without experimentation. Kayak sailors seem to be intense, passionate and opinionated.

Much research and experimentation to do.

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Re: Sailing kayak

Idea ? Window movers handles (vacuum grip on glass deck) hold swivelling masts joined at the peak and fold down forward. Dhow type spar hoists to top and is backstay. Pendant at tack controls yard. Drop yard to pass halyard over and rehaul on other tack .Ammas probably to prevent upset.
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Re: Sailing kayak Balogh Batwing was what I wanted at one point.

I have sailed with a marconi rig on a kayak upwing performance is limited, I always wanted a Balogh Batwing.

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post #25 of 68 Old 10-26-2018 Thread Starter
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Re: Sailing kayak

Here is an interesting demonstration by Falcon sails. I like these units.

The guy goes out in some pretty rough stuff on Lake Erie, puts up his rig, brings the boat down onto a reach, brings the boat back up into irons and drops the rig all within about 2 minutes.

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Re: Sailing kayak

I have a Whitehall sliding seat rowboat with a sailing rig using leeboards. Would suggest you pay attention as to how hard it is to get the leeboards up and down. Find once a leeboard is under load it takes a bit of effort to move it. I paddle it when itís used as a sail boat so the other thing is watch the relationship between the leeboards and the natural sweep of your paddle when you are sitting in the spot you like. Although I can row it at 5-6kts forever even in chop I canít paddle at any kind of speed at all. The mechanics and drag from even one leeboard slows me down.
The craft shown in this thread are fascinating. A whole nother world. Great thread.

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post #27 of 68 Old 10-26-2018 Thread Starter
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Re: Sailing kayak

Good tip on the leeboards. Leeboards are something I have considered quite a bit.. These are really busy dynamic boats to sail. Feet are controling the rudders much of the balance is in the hips, hands are busy with the paddle and controling the sheet and the vang and the the skeg. Throw a leeboard into the mix and I could imagine swimming. The boat I have selected has a slight V for its full lengthplus skeg and rudder, so I am hoping that will provide enough lateral resistance. Experimentation will tell. My Prindle relies solely on hull shape and rudders for lateral resistance, as do Hobie 16's. I guess there is no way to know until I try it, but the skeg on this boat is significant.

After speaking with kayak sailors and a couple of kayak/canoe sail rig designers, I have selected what I think will work best for me without making the boat excessively heavy with amas, crossbars leeboards and a heavy rig. Ordered a carbon fibre rig and dacron sail from Falcon today. like this rig because of the CF mast, boom and strut, sail controls include sheet, vang and outhaul. Looks like I will be learning to kayak sail in November. We get the best winds of the year in November, so it should be fun.
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Re: Sailing kayak

I would hope that Falcon makes a bigger sail than the one in the video. That looks like too small sail to be of much use in normal sailing conditions, especially if you hope to make the passage speeds that you reference above.

One of the 'American Canoe Assn' class boats that I looked at had its leeboards set up with a line that raised the leeboard on one side of the boat when the other side was lowered so you simply pulled the line across the cockpit to raise and lower the leeboards. The leeboards go very far forward, essentially with the leading edge abeam of the mast.

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Re: Sailing kayak

They do make a bigger sail, but I went with the 1 meter in the video, based on available information from the designers I spoke to. Canoe sailing has been around a while, but there is very little out there on kayak sailing. Some of the very early sailing canoes could be considered sailing Kayaks (a kayak needs to be narrow enough to incorporate the use of a double bladed paddle, Macgregor used this). Aside from that, there isn't much on it. Its a pretty experimental sport.

Without going into too much detail on the competive side of this, there are class considerations I need to consider. Consider 5 basic boat types. Multi hull, very fast, lot to go wrong, very experienced competition. Monohull Sailboat. Again, fast, lots of technology, expensive boats, experienced sailors. Sailing Canoe and sailing Kayak, this would include light powerful sailing rigs similar to maybe a Windrider 17, or that beast Thereyouare shared with leeboards and amas, but would also (and does also) include some of the more traditional rigs like were in the mystic article you shared (only coastal ocean capable designs though). Then there are Expedition Kayaks and Canoes; sails to 1 meter, no lee boards, no amas aloud. Then there are racing canoes and kayaks; these boats are brute force- the competition is extremely fit (more fit than me for sure), the boats are ligh, this class also includes stand up paddle boards for the truly insane. Then there are doubles and singles.



I think the solo expedition kayak is a good place for me, because if the rig doesnt work out or there is no wind, I can just paddle. My thought process is to do as much with that 1 square meter of sail as I can. A lot of expedition type kayaks and canoes have very simple sails or no sails at all. At this time I have not sailed a 65 pound 23 inch BOA boat with an upwind sail, I may decide its totally wrong for me and go for a much more powerful rig with amas and lee boards, still incorporating the Falcon sail as part of a larger sail plan, but I thought I would experiment in that expedition class before spending more money.
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Re: Sailing kayak

Thank you for the additional information. I didn't realize that there was a class that only permitted 1 square meter sails. That makes more sense.

As a quick point, the early voyaging canoes did use double paddles and by the late 1800's had evolved into very sophisticated designs. The sweet spot for the beam dimension for a double-canoe that could also be sailed was between 2'-6" and 2'-8".

Good luck with your experiment.
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