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post #11 of 21 Old 01-04-2019
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Re: Twin mainsheets...why?

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twin main - or German mainsheet - lets you control main sail from winches at either helm position. I'm assuming your 38 has dual helms like most newer charter boats. Just don't trim from the same side all the time - you'll run out of sheet.
The mainsheet system I have (see below) is a continuous double ended sheet. Either end could be led to a winch. This would be for 8:1 fine tuning. However if you use both end... you have 4:1. There is a traveler as well and they too can be led to a winch. I built this system in 1985 unaware of the German System from available hardware. The line could be spliced end to end making it a continuous line. I don't see the point aside from you can't loose the sheet. But a stopper knot at the end prevents that.

This is a good system for my large main fractional rig... especially because the main is the main source of power in the rig.
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post #12 of 21 Old 01-04-2019
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Re: Twin mainsheets...why?

Here's another thread on this same subject: https://www.sailnet.com/forums/gener...-traveler.html
There's a picture or two that might be helpful.
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post #13 of 21 Old 01-05-2019 Thread Starter
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Re: Twin mainsheets...why?

Again, thanks,

If I've got this right, basically the "German" system, which is probably what we'll be using, works kind of like this: if you are on a starboard tack, the mainsheet is controlled by a starboard winch. At the same time, on the port side the sheet is wrapped, but "lazy."
And then vice-versa on the port tack.
Is it that simple?
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post #14 of 21 Old 01-05-2019
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Re: Twin mainsheets...why?

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Again, thanks,



If I've got this right, basically the "German" system, which is probably what we'll be using, works kind of like this: if you are on a starboard tack, the mainsheet is controlled by a starboard winch. At the same time, on the port side the sheet is wrapped, but "lazy."

And then vice-versa on the port tack.

Is it that simple?
Yes, both the Genoa sheet and the main sheet are lead through a double cheek block on each side. The cheek blocks have clutches so you can lock off the "lazy" end and free up the winch for use with the other sail.



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post #15 of 21 Old 01-05-2019
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Re: Twin mainsheets...why?

Separate twin main sheets are best for controlling the shape of the mainsail. Instead of moving the sheet on the traveler, you can control the fullness of the sail with twin sheets.
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post #16 of 21 Old 01-06-2019
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Re: Twin mainsheets...why?

Earlier in the thread someone commented that German style sheet with a vang works as well as a more typical layout that has the mainsheet attached to a traveler. With a single sheet setup and without a traveler, you cannot control twist and still be able to center the boom. The issue becomes if the leech is eased enough to allow the leech to open for the gradient wind, the boom is well to leeward of its ideal position. That is an issue until the wind is blowing enough that the sail needs to be bladed out, in which case vang sheeting works fine.

There is an old school set up with a separate mainsheet tackle on each side of the boat. This allows twist and rotation to be adjusted independent of each other and allows the same range of sail trim as a mainsheet and traveller. In practice it is a pain in the butt to use since the type of adjustment that would normally be made with the traveler, is made by adjusting the tackle on both sides of the boat, and it is a bit of a trial and error proposition since you don't know whether the adjustment on one tackle is right until you adjust the other, so you end up making a lot more adjustments.

All that said, for some reason almost all new European boats are being delivered without travelers these days. I think that results from the trend of mounting travelers on the cabin top and mid-boom travelers are relatively so ineffective that there isn't much loss to eliminating the traveler.

Jeff
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post #17 of 21 Old 01-06-2019
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Re: Twin mainsheets...why?

Actually, my traveler is used almost as much for moving the main aside at anchor as it is for trimming the main. It's a fractional rig so main trim is a biggie.
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post #18 of 21 Old 01-06-2019
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Re: Twin mainsheets...why?

It is unclear what kind of "double mainsheet" the OP is going to be dealing with, but what I am talking about is more of a "double ended" mainsheet that is standard on the Jeanneau 379, 389, 409 etc. As these boats are popular in charter fleets there is a good chance this is what he will be encountering.

Jeanneau has not eliminated the traveller, they have just added German sheeting. this the boat easier to single hand without sacrificing the superior trimming ability the traveller offers.

https://youtu.be/LDxSQPryS4k


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post #19 of 21 Old 01-07-2019
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Re: Twin mainsheets...why?

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Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post
Earlier in the thread someone commented that German style sheet with a vang works as well as a more typical layout that has the mainsheet attached to a traveler. With a single sheet setup and without a traveler, you cannot control twist and still be able to center the boom. The issue becomes if the leech is eased enough to allow the leech to open for the gradient wind, the boom is well to leeward of its ideal position. That is an issue until the wind is blowing enough that the sail needs to be bladed out, in which case vang sheeting works fine.

There is an old school set up with a separate mainsheet tackle on each side of the boat. This allows twist and rotation to be adjusted independent of each other and allows the same range of sail trim as a mainsheet and traveller. In practice it is a pain in the butt to use since the type of adjustment that would normally be made with the traveler, is made by adjusting the tackle on both sides of the boat, and it is a bit of a trial and error proposition since you don't know whether the adjustment on one tackle is right until you adjust the other, so you end up making a lot more adjustments.

All that said, for some reason almost all new European boats are being delivered without travelers these days. I think that results from the trend of mounting travelers on the cabin top and mid-boom travelers are relatively so ineffective that there isn't much loss to eliminating the traveler.

Jeff
I think it was me who said we had a boat with a single mainsheet and traveller - but I don't know what a German style is.

I don't understand why you say the boom can't be centered and twist controlled. The twist is controlled by the vang, and the mainsheet can bring the boom to center. You need to readjust the mainsheet after letting out the vang, but the boom does come to center.

The shortcoming is that the boom cannot be positioned to windward of centerline. This is helpful in certain conditions. However, the vastly superior control of a vang compared to a traveller or twin sheet setup when deep off the wind more than makes up for it in a cruising situation.

Best of all worlds would be a traveller or twin sheet with a vang. More complicated, though.

Mark
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post #20 of 21 Old 01-07-2019 Thread Starter
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Re: Twin mainsheets...why?

Thanks Shock,

The video really cleared it up for us.

Much thanks,

22
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