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-   -   Is tinned boat wire necessary? (https://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/329450-tinned-boat-wire-necessary.html)

boatpoker 04-30-2019 07:31 PM

Re: Is tinned boat wire necessary?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pdqaltair (Post 2051599376)
The wire I posted is dual rated as THHN/THWN and is listed as an acceptable classification in 183.430.

I simply responded to the OP's question and am not interesting in a pissing contest.

183.430 is a requirement for marine conductors to meet SAEJ378 and SAEJ1128.It is NOT an approval of THHN/THWN and it is not listed there nor anywhere else in Sub part 1.

Now if you can show that THHN/THWN do meet SAE1128 and SAEJ378 you are on to something.

pdqaltair 04-30-2019 07:41 PM

Re: Is tinned boat wire necessary?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by boatpoker (Post 2051599378)
183.430 is a requirement for marine conductors to meet SAEJ378 and SAEJ1128.It is NOT an approval of THHN/THWN and it is not listed there.

Now if you can show that THHN/THWN do meet SAE1128 and SAEJ378 you are on to something.

This is from a USCG publication:
This section allows alternate choices of conductor requirements for circuits less than 50 volts.Conductors for circuits less than 50 volts may be used if they:(a) meet the requirements of SAE J1127 “Battery Cable” or SAE J1128 “Low Tension PrimaryCable” and the insulating material temperature rating requirements of SAE J378 “MarineEngine Wiring” such as those designated:GPT, HDT, SGT, STS, HTS, and SXL, or(b) are classified as moisture resistant and flame retardant in Article 310 of the NationalElectrical Code, such as those designated:THW, TW, THWN, XHHW, MTS, or

I'm sure I could be wrong, but this seems clear.

john61ct 04-30-2019 07:43 PM

Re: Is tinned boat wire necessary?
 
So to reduce the ad hominem background static,

could those who would not consider using home-style wires on a boat,

but do **not** think stringent marine standards ABYC nor tinned wires are important,

please specify what you **do** consider accepta ble,

Don L 04-30-2019 08:32 PM

Re: Is tinned boat wire necessary?
 
Someone got kicked in the ass, but the person doing it fell over in the process and landed on their back knocking themself out.

Hard to tell who “won”

colemj 04-30-2019 09:02 PM

Re: Is tinned boat wire necessary?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by john61ct (Post 2051599384)
So to reduce the ad hominem background static,

could those who would not consider using home-style wires on a boat,

but do **not** think stringent marine standards ABYC nor tinned wires are important,

please specify what you **do** consider accepta ble,

Anything that gets the job done for another few years when your choices are limited to whatever is lying around in an old shed on a small island.

Surprisingly, tinned welding wire is available in the most unlikely out-of-the-way places (and inexpensive). I have literally found this for sale in grass huts. I have had very good luck using this for battery cables and other high-current usage. Enough so that I question why I ever do buy expensive marine battery cables.

Nobody prat on about thin strands, etc - I've had years of experience with this stuff and am no longer listening. Even though my recent purchase of battery cable was Anchor tinned 4/0.

Also surprising is just how long really bad wire will function well if a bit of thought goes into its installation. I swear I could get cheap lamp zip cord to last 10yrs in a wet bilge.

Mark

boatpoker 04-30-2019 11:03 PM

Re: Is tinned boat wire necessary?
 
For anyone interested in the facts here are the references required by Law in the US.
None of these support the position of the other poster.

Code of Federal Regulations Title 33, Sub Part 1, 183.430 (which has no list of "approved" products)
As required by CFR Title 33 SAE J378
As required by CFR Tirle 33 SAE J1127
As required by CFR Tirle 33 SAE J1128

And of course ABYC E-11 which is voluntary and does not require tinned conductors.

All of these are available online for anyone who is interested.

pdqaltair 04-30-2019 11:26 PM

Re: Is tinned boat wire necessary?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by boatpoker (Post 2051599410)
For anyone interested in the facts here are the references required by Law in the US.
None of these support the position of the other poster.

Code of Federal Regulations Title 33, Sub Part 1, 183.430 (which has no list of "approved" products)
As required by CFR Title 33 SAE J378
As required by CFR Tirle 33 SAE J1127
As required by CFR Tirle 33 SAE J1128

And of course ABYC E-11 which is voluntary and does not require tinned conductors.

All of these are available online for anyone who is interested.

183.435Conductors in Circuits of 50 Volts or More.(a) Each conductor in a circuit that has a nominal voltage of 50 volts or more must be:(1) A conductor that has insulation listed and classified as moisture resistant and flame retardant in Article 310, NFPA No. 70, National Electric Code; or

THWN is one of the permitted alternate conductors in article 310.

Without question, it's convoluted. I've followed the path as best I can.

makobuilders 05-01-2019 11:51 AM

Re: Is tinned boat wire necessary?
 
Those photos that Boatpoker pasted at the beginning of this thread are obviously showing neglect by the owner. I think some preventive maintenance such as liberally applying dielectric grease (or good ole Vaseline) would help. I had a custom boat build here in the Persian Gulf and even in this highly corrosive atmosphere, my cheap wiring help up great. I love D-grease almost as much as JB Weld!

ReefMagnet 05-01-2019 09:19 PM

Re: Is tinned boat wire necessary?
 
When I rewired my 30+ year old boar recently, the original wiring looked like figure 8 lamp cord. All still worked, but some was horribly corroded for a considerable difference from the ends whereas others were as pristine as the day they were installed. The thing with this old wiring though, was the insulation. It was as tough as nails (and not as in hardened with age) compared to the new stuff, of which some has such soft insulation I am actually cautious in using it in locations where even the remotest chance of chafe is possible.

Anyway, I digress. I was so impressed with some of the original wiring that I repurposed it and used dual core, double sheathed tinned wire of various capacities for the majority of the rest of the wiring. However, I do notice, as was mentioned earlier, that engine wiring - even outboards - is untinned and so is most likely all electronic's wires including some which are incredibly thin. With this in mind, I had no hesitation in running standard un-tinned automotive wiring (including trailer multicore!) when I needed colours other than the standard red black/white or wanted to run a multicored wire. I figure it will last 20 years inside the boat.

I tried to use waterproof crimp connectors, but with hundreds to do, I ended up just using the regular style for most connections with occasional heat shrink (which I think can be a double edged sword). Multi pin connectors and stuff with potential exposure to water were coated with either silicon or lanolin grease. All wires going to the outside of the boat are tinned, and connectors used externally are waterproof automotive types pumped with silicon grease for added protection. I even coat the MC4 solar panel connectors in silicon grease for protection, too.

So in summary, horses for courses. Some locations are not going to be a problem with corrosion and others are. The problem areas would be those connecting to exterior devices or those in runs that would make "servicing sewer pipes" preferable.

riggy001 05-09-2019 11:53 PM

Re: Is tinned boat wire necessary?
 
Screw government regulations! Those are unconstitutional, but that is a topic for a different group. Ray's Regulation 104.27.173.225 (my website, personalprotection-usa.com) says "bare copper wire exposed to salt air will eventually turn green. Solder will not.

Use your best judgement as to exposure and either tin your tips or don't. I would. It can never hurt, and flux core solder is dirt cheap.

S/V Sperantza - 1973 Columbia 41 CC


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