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post #1 of 11 Old 08-27-2019 Thread Starter
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Hunter B&R

My friend bought this Hunter 34 and I'm trying to get the rig safe.

It has a brand new mainsail, never used.

We raised the sail and the aft dutchman broke.
He raised the said the second time and the forward dutchman control line broke.

It is hard to see but it looks like the wire topping lift pennant is too short as the pennant to topping lift halyard tail connection hits the shive before the boom is the right height.

Then again it looks like it has a wicked mast bend.

The dutchman control lines were obviously UV damaged. The PVC coated wire pennant is severely cracked. The double-braid topping lift halyard tail is severely abraided.

Replacing this all makes sense to me but I'm thinking I need to make the pennant shorter.

Any idea?
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post #2 of 11 Old 08-27-2019
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Re: Hunter B&R

There are two adjustments - the topping lift (boom) height and the length of the Dutchman lines. Set the boom height first, then adjust the Dutchman monofilament lines at the pockets on the sail foot. The Dutchman lines do not need to be snug but need a little slack to avoid snapping them (as you found out).

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post #3 of 11 Old 08-28-2019
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Re: Hunter B&R

one of the advantages of the B&R rig is that you can adjust in some mast bend. looks about normal but the mast bend needs to mach the cut of the sail. I have replaced the monofilament line on a dutchman with very small braided dyneema, the sun kills the mono line. the same for the wire, change to dyneema or replace the whole toping lift. with all line. I use a 5/16" line spliced to a 3/16" dyneema in place of the wire.

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post #4 of 11 Old 08-28-2019 Thread Starter
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Re: Hunter B&R

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one of the advantages of the B&R rig is that you can adjust in some mast bend. looks about normal but the mast bend needs to mach the cut of the sail. I have replaced the monofilament line on a dutchman with very small braided dyneema, the sun kills the mono line. the same for the wire, change to dyneema or replace the whole toping lift. with all line. I use a 5/16" line spliced to a 3/16" dyneema in place of the wire.
I like the sound of that. Why the splice thought. I thought most folks had a shackle about a foot from the top of the mast so the pennant could be removed with the sail when the sail was removed from the boat.



I was thinking about using Dyneema for the pennant but am worried that the clamps would slip because it is so slick.

I was planning on using 3mil whipping Dyneema for the vertical lines.


Did you do anything special to make it work?

So I hoist the sail to make sure the mast bend is right, what exactly am I looking for? Leach tension?

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Last edited by davidpm; 08-28-2019 at 05:50 AM.
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post #5 of 11 Old 08-28-2019
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Re: Hunter B&R

If you change to dyneema for the topping lift, you certainly could splice SS thimbles on each end to permit easy removal like the coated wire one. But I doubt you could continue to use the clamps for the reason you mention. They would not stay in the correct position. If you spice the smaller sail guide lines in, you lose the ability to easily adjust the height of top of the vertical sail guide lines that the clamps provide.

To me this is a solution in search of a problem. My current boat came with a Dutchman system like you describe, a "Type A" with coated wire topping lift and two monofilament lines. In 10 years I've replaced two monofilament lines. That's it for maintenance.

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post #6 of 11 Old 08-28-2019 Thread Starter
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Re: Hunter B&R

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Originally Posted by JimsCAL View Post

To me this is a solution in search of a problem. My current boat came with a Dutchman system like you describe, a "Type A" with coated wire topping lift and two monofilament lines. In 10 years I've replaced two monofilament lines. That's it for maintenance.
You are probably right. Sometimes old is better than new.

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post #7 of 11 Old 08-28-2019
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Re: Hunter B&R

David, I’m not quite following how this Dutchman is setup. My Catalina 34 appears to be different. The “fishing line” is in fact 400# test fishing line and is subject to UV degradation. I replace mine every few years and I buy it from a commercial fishery chandlery. You probably don’t want to replace it with Dynema as you want the fishing line to break instead of destroying the plastic grommet/slides pressed into the sail or ripping the sail itself. The way my Dutchman is set up, I can adjust the cars to ease tension on the fishing line when I adjust the vang or mainsheet.


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post #8 of 11 Old 08-28-2019
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Re: Hunter B&R

GeorgeB, you are describing a Type B Dutchman system. David has described the original Type A system. The Type A system does not allow on-the-fly adjustment of the height of the top of the monofilament lines, but has the benefit of being simple and lower windage.

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post #9 of 11 Old 08-29-2019
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Re: Hunter B&R

Jim, David, interesting that the same size boat has the “big boat” Dutchman. Brings up a question: How large is the roach on the Hunter? On my boat the roach extends way beyond the Dutchman. I think that one should still use the 400# line instead of something like Dynema as you would rather have the fishing line break instead of damaging the sail. My fishing line breaks frequently enough that I carry a couple of pre-cut and knotted lengths as onboard spares. I think that the initial set up and tensioning is the key. I set mine (topping lift adjustment) so the boom is perpendicular and the fishing lines have no slack (not taught). I ease the topping lift for hoisting/ sailing and only tighten just prior to dropping the sail.

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post #10 of 11 Old 08-29-2019
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Re: Hunter B&R

why use a material that breaks on a regular basis. my friends hunter 33 had the same problem, he kept breaking the fishing line from UV so we changed it to a very small braided dyneema line and it is still good 5 years latter and we have not hurt the sail in any way. he has a very large roach with full batten sail and the topping lift which is also dyneema is a bit slack when sailing. the Dutchman line are spliced and buried into the topping lift line and lock stitched so no shackles or fittings to chafe the sail. adjustment is on the boom. topping lift set just loose when sailing and tight when the sail is lowered. the Dutchman lines are set and forget. he loves the system and I would think about the same system but not going to put holes in my molded composite main sail.
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