Differing advice--can someone clarify? - SailNet Community
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 16 Old 03-05-2008 Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 288
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Differing advice--can someone clarify?

In reading about seacock maintenance, I am reading and hearing that seacocks require annual lubrication, but ball valves are relatively maintenance free. I had thought that ball valves are a kind of mechanism in the seacock, not a different fitting altogether. And I can't understand why a seacock needs annual maintenance, but a ball valve doesn't. Is there anything that a ball valve does need, other than regular operation to ensure it still works?

I am not talking about gate valves, which I understand are bad on a boat because one can't tell if they are open or closed, and apparently they aren't as reliable.

Thanks for any clarification.

Frank.
FrankLanger is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 16 Old 03-05-2008
Telstar 28
 
sailingdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,289
Thanks: 0
Thanked 20 Times in 15 Posts
Rep Power: 19
         
There are three types of valves used as seacocks on boats. They are:

gate valves...which are a really bad idea
ball valve...which are becoming the norm nowadays
tapered cone... which are becoming a bit scarcer as of late

All of them, including ball valves, will generally require annual maintenance of greasing or lubricating the mechanism. Most will require at least monthly operation to prevent them from seizing in a given position.

The real reason gate valves are such a bad idea on a boat, is the gate can fail and even though you think you've closed the valve, and turned the handle all the way shut...the inner part may still be open. That can't happen with a ball valve or tapered cone valve. So you may be starting work on a hose, and shut the valve, and when you remove the hose, the through-hull is still pouring water into the boat...




Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
sailingdog is offline  
post #3 of 16 Old 03-05-2008 Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 288
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Thanks, Sailingdog. For the ball valve, is there any way to grease/lubricate it without taking the hose off (I don't like the idea of undoing a non-leaking fitting as with my luck it will encourage it to leak afterwards). Can it be done by pouring a bit of vegetable oil down the drain or flushing a small amount of vegetable oil through the head? Can it be done from the outside during a haulout?

Or do I need to "bit the bullet" and take the hose off, apply grease, reattach the hose and then work it to spread the grease on the ball valve?

Thanks,
Frank.
FrankLanger is offline  
 
post #4 of 16 Old 03-05-2008
Telstar 28
 
sailingdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New England
Posts: 43,289
Thanks: 0
Thanked 20 Times in 15 Posts
Rep Power: 19
         
You can do it from outside the boat, by putting grease on the end of stick and putting that into the through-hull. You really should have someone on the inside of the boat to work the valve while you hold the grease against the ball. This can even be done with the boat in the water, but you'll probably want a scuba tank and mask if you're doing that. You really need to use a grease, an oil is too thin and won't lubricate the valve seat properly. IIRC, Lanocote can also be used.




Sailingdog

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Telstar 28
New England

You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

If you're new to the Sailnet Forums... please read this
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

Still—DON'T READ THAT POST AGAIN.
sailingdog is offline  
post #5 of 16 Old 03-05-2008
SaltwaterSuzi/CapnLarry
 
LarryandSusanMacDonald's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Permanent Vacation
Posts: 609
Thanks: 4
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 16
 
Greasing your ball valves

Here at the Yacht Yard where I work, frequently customers will request that their seacocks be lubricated when we pull them. If they are ball valves (the norm these days) we use two guys - one on the inside, one on the outside. The guy on the inside works it back and forth while the guy on the outside sprays with silicon lubricant.

More than once, the poor guy on the outside got a shower from a holding tank, so be careful which seacock you're opening.

If the seacock does not operate smoothly, we dissassemble and repair, or replace if necessary.

We have found that most of the time when the bronze seacock is green - badly green - it has suffered from galvanic corrosion. It is ALWAYS bonded when it is green - which is why I don't like bonding in a boat. Most of the guys in the boat yard agree. The rest don't know what they're talking about.

The tapered cone style we almost always dissassemble and lubricate with a lubricant which looks a little like library paste and comes in a 5 gallon bucket. I forget what the stuff is called. I haven't done it a long time.

Saltwater Suzi and Cap'n Larry


"A sailboat is a fickle mistress. You’ve got to buy her things. You’ve got to understand everything about her. What you don’t know she’ll use against you." -Captain Larry


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



LarryandSusanMacDonald is offline  
post #6 of 16 Old 03-05-2008
moderate?
 
camaraderie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: East Coast
Posts: 13,875
Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Rep Power: 21
     
Or buy good Marelon seacocks! Actually the whole annual maaintenance thing on through hulls is way overblown. It comes from the fact that MOST boasts sit at the dock and the through hulls don't get excercised and get clogged up and stiff with disuse and with barnacles etc.
If you are using your boat and working the through hulls regularly and they are operating smoothly, just keep em cleaned out from barnacles etc. which you can do from the water with a hanger wire. If they start feeling a bit stiffer or if you are hauled and it has been a couple of years..then you might add a bit of grease...and as dawg says...you can do it easily from below if you have someone work the lever while you work the gun.

No longer posting. Reach me by PM!
camaraderie is offline  
post #7 of 16 Old 03-05-2008
Senior Member
 
Faster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 19,488
Thanks: 160
Thanked 587 Times in 558 Posts
Rep Power: 17
     
Hopefully this isnt considered a hijack, Frank....

Our current boat has tapered cone thruhulls throughout, with the exception of the cockpit drains which had been gates and I've changed to ball valves.

How much of the "seal" on these tapered cones is provided by the grease? Mine do not hold well (they seep if I remove the hose), but if I tighten the gland any further I can't move them easily. - I'd also be interested to know the best grease to apply on the next haulout.

Thanks

Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
Faster is offline  
post #8 of 16 Old 03-05-2008
Senior Member
 
JohnRPollard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Chesapeake
Posts: 5,680
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 16
     
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingdog View Post
All of them, including ball valves, will generally require annual maintenance of greasing or lubricating the mechanism. Most will require at least monthly operation to prevent them from seizing in a given position.
In my experience annual maintenance (greasing or lubricating) would be over-kill for bronze ball valves.

I last lubed our seacocks (bronze ball valves) five years ago and they still open and close easily. Our boat is typically in the water 11+ months a year. Maybe the fact that we open/close them all when we come and go from the boat has something to do with it...?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Pacific Seacraft Crealock 31 #62

NEVER CALLS CRUISINGDAD BACK....CAN"T TAKE THE ACCENT
JohnRPollard is offline  
post #9 of 16 Old 03-05-2008
Senior Member
 
chucklesR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Pasadena Md - Magothy side
Posts: 5,979
Thanks: 10
Thanked 31 Times in 31 Posts
Rep Power: 15
     
Faster,
Tthe best grease is what you apply to the yard workers palm when he replaces the cone seacock with a marelon ball type seacock. After that, if you insist - Lithium marine grease stands up well to the test of time.
chucklesR is offline  
post #10 of 16 Old 03-05-2008
Senior Member
 
chucklesR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Pasadena Md - Magothy side
Posts: 5,979
Thanks: 10
Thanked 31 Times in 31 Posts
Rep Power: 15
     
IIRC, the best cleaner for bronze deck drains, valves etc is good old fashioned Navy koolaid, which we called bug juice. It literally works as a mild acid and removes any gunk that has built up.
chucklesR is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I Want To Clarify Some Things Pearson796 Cruising and Sailing with Children 46 04-01-2014 08:43 PM
Clarify piracy defence laws - MPs NewsReader News Feeds 0 01-05-2012 01:01 AM
Can someone identify this thing? gwp Gear & Maintenance 7 07-26-2003 03:30 PM
Can someone tell me how to unstep an O''Day 25? ejgubbins Gear & Maintenance 3 02-03-2002 12:45 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome