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post #11 of 39 Old 06-04-2008 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by julied View Post
Just a note on the Wavestopper. I added one to a previous boat of mine. Loved the fact that it was tough and I could put some weight on it when putting the sail cover on, etc. Hated the fact that it almost immediately lost it's color! I bought one in blue. Bad mistake. I've seen several ones in white that still look good.
Thanks for the advice. I am looking for white/beige, so hopefully color retention would be decent.
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post #12 of 39 Old 06-04-2008
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brak...

DO NOT remove an HR windshield and replace it with a hard dodger!! If you must add a hard top dodger it CAN be done with the right canvas guy TRUST ME!

If it were me I'd be going with a three bow design on top of the HR windshield frame (they are much stronger than you give it credit) and then covering that frame with Stamoid.

If you must have a hard dodger do what they do on walk arounds like Pursuits and do a frame outside the wind shield..

I really think you'll be sorry for ripping off that windshield and for using 5200 on anything!

Oh and PLEASE update your profile! This is the third time in a month I've tried to look up your vessel or sailing area to answer your question! It's only fair to others, if you are asking questions, to at least list your boat brand model and length and your general sailing area..

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post #13 of 39 Old 06-04-2008 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by halekai36 View Post
DO NOT remove an HR windshield and replace it with a hard dodger!! If you must add a hard top dodger it CAN be done with the right canvas guy TRUST ME!

If it were me I'd be going with a three bow design on top of the HR windshield frame (they are much stronger than you give it credit) and then covering that frame with Stamoid.

If you must have a hard dodger do what they do on walk arounds like Pursuits and do a frame outside the wind shield..

I really think you'll be sorry for ripping off that windshield and for using 5200 on anything!

Oh and PLEASE update your profile! This is the third time in a month I've tried to look up your vessel or sailing area to answer your question! It's only fair to others, if you are asking questions, to at least list your boat brand model and length and your general sailing area..
Ah, never thought about putting this stuff in the profile I will.

The windshield may have been strong 36 years ago but it definitely isn't that way now. It is aluminum and quite oxidized, crumbling at the corners etc. The connecting brackets and fasteners are in the worst condition. Using this windshield for structural support is not the way to go.

I probably misstated what I am trying to do. I don't really plan on "hard dodger". Rather, I am considering wavestopper which is a hard top only. The front is either soft panel dodger or some sort of connection to existing windshield.

The problem with connection to windshield is that there is no place to put forward bow such that it is inside the windshield. If the bow is outside - hard top would overhang the windshield and these tops aren't really designed that way.

Well, we'll see - I guess when I get the guy on my boat again, we'll discuss the options. It's not easy to get the only person that builds these things on the boat.
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post #14 of 39 Old 06-05-2008
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If your frame is that bad that really sucks because they can make a beautiful dodger. I've been on a couple of HR 35's and have never seen a wind shield in that bad of shape.

Here's an original line drawing and it shows a simple two bow design if it helps at all..


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post #15 of 39 Old 06-05-2008 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by halekai36 View Post
If your frame is that bad that really sucks because they can make a beautiful dodger. I've been on a couple of HR 35's and have never seen a wind shield in that bad of shape.

Here's an original line drawing and it shows a simple two bow design if it helps at all..
I have the drawings and I've seen the original hard top. (Actually I think you are linking to the drawing in my boat's Yachtworld listing She's still there - I can't get it canceled ) It isn't based on bows. It is a specially formed fiberglass roof with a flange that rests directly on the windshield. Here is what it looks like on a sistership:



From what I've seen (and I looked at 5 or 6 sisterships before mine) all of them had issues with aluminum windshields. It's the vintage really - 30+ years is a long time.
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My canvas dodger does not leak. There are some leaks when we attach the side panels of the almost full enclosure, but yes it is possible to keep the actual dodger from leaking. We have snaps along the bottom which did leak, but we made an additional strip of canvas that goes in a slot on the deck and then zippers to the bottom of the dodger. It keeps out any green or rain water.

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/e...NewCanvass.jpg

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/e.../NewCanvas.jpg
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post #17 of 39 Old 06-05-2008
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Brak ..dodger..

Brak,

Here's a post I wrote a while ago. Unfortunately, I don't have the time right now to edit it to it your exact situation but most of the points remain either the same or similar even when using a wave stopper..

Here it is:

Read this to gain a better understanding of what a custom made dodger entails..
Hale Kai Dodger Project

I would suggest not wasting your money on a pre-fab dodger. You want a custom made dodger or you most likely won't be happy. Custom made will run about 20% more but be well worth it...

Here are some questions to ask:

Tubing: You want 316 thick wall! Not type 304 thin wall. All 1" or 7/8" stainless tubing is NOT the same.

Thread: You WANT a thread that will last as long as the Sunbrella or Staimoid. W.L. Gore's Tenara is the only thread that will do this..

Grab Rail's: Side and cockpit make sure the cockpit grab rail is welded on.

Windows:
Strataglass or equivalent. All 30 mil and 40 mil windows are NOT created equal!

Center Window: A full zip out window is a great option as you can lay it in the v-berth to prevent scratching the glass. Rolling windows up is one of the worst things you can do for dodger glass!

Design:
Your canvas guy should spend time with you ON the boat and then design the dodger to YOUR preferences. For example; do you want to look under the dodger or look over the top. When the frame is bent this data needs to be there or you'll be staring at the dodger frame when standing a the helm.

Lapels: Every exposed zipper MUST be covered by a lapel! A lapel is like the fly on your pants that covers the zipper. On a dodger it prevents UV damage to the zipper!

Deck Attachment: Most builders use Lift-A-Dot's or Twist Locks to attach the canvas to the deck. This can create uneven pulls in the canvas and eventually, after enough hot sun, the glass. You'll want to consider a luff tape attachment system. This plastic track can be heated with a heat gun and custom bent to match the contour of your deck. The dodger has a corresponding luff tape sewn across the entire front bottom edge that is slid into the luff track.
Best!

Better:

Mediocre:


Frame Support: If you have a hand rail you want support struts that attach the frame to the cockpit coaming to distribute the loads.
No grab rail or support struts:

Well done grab rail with support struts:


Use a LOCAL shop that does good work and let the price sink in for a bit..! A well designed and constructed dodger will out last a poorly built one by close to double! Loose fabric, that can flap in the wind, will DESTROY Sunbrella in short order!


A good example of a BAD (Mail Order) dodger:

An example of a good dodger (same boat):





A dodger can make or break the looks and aesthetics of your boat and IMHO it's not a place to cut corners! BTW here's a picture of that same dodger taken last summer after adding side grab rails. It was six year's old when this photo was taken..






If you feel like setting the bar really high, after reading this thread, take a look at this canvas work!

Mobile Marine Canvas Photo Gallery

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post #18 of 39 Old 06-05-2008
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My Gemini was ordered with the full enclosure, it uses a combination of snaps, zipped panels - and what you may be interested in - bolt ropes that go into aluminum tracks.
The tracks are bendable for curves, very tight, and very easy to feed the bolt rope into.
Overall the enclosure is watertight to rain and damned if I ever want to know about boarding waves . If you want pictures or supplier info on the tracks I'm sure I could get it from PCI.
Keep the windshield, Pilot House designs/looks are big sellers for folks wanting a safe stable dry cruiser.
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post #19 of 39 Old 06-05-2008
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How does a dodger not interfere with a cabin top traveler ?

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I had a dream, I was sailing, I was happy, I was even smiling. Then I looked down and saw that I was on a multi-hull and woke up suddenly in a cold sweat.
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post #20 of 39 Old 06-05-2008 Thread Starter
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Thanks all!

Chuckles - I am keeping the windshield, I meditated on this a bit more and I am definitely against removing anything.

Halekai - that plastic track (shown as "best" in your post) - where can I find out more about it? Manufacturer or supplier would help a lot. I think this would work exactly as needed.
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