Automotive antifreeze vs. RV antifreeze for engine. - Page 3 - SailNet Community
 20Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #21 of 55 Old 10-27-2019
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 21,401
Thanks: 84
Thanked 605 Times in 581 Posts
Rep Power: 12
   
Re: Automotive antifreeze vs. RV antifreeze for engine.

The RV/marine potable water anti-freeze products can typically be used on the raw water side of an engines cooling system. The tread seems to be confused with the coolant inside the captive side of what's called a fresh water cooled system. It's poorly names. I substantially prefer to use -100degF on the raw water side, which the sales guy at WM always thinks is crazy in RI. However, these ratings are for bursting, not freezing. They freeze at much warmer temps. Further, any dilution seriously degrades their capability. The -100 product can be diluted almost 50/50 and still be perfectly effective in our winters. I worry about dilution in the raw water system and holding tank, in particular.

The ubiquitous pink stuff is rated at -50degF. This will typically freeze at a positive 8F to10F, if undiluted.

As for the fresh water system, nothing gets added there. Ever. I said, ever. I blow the entire system out with a compressor.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Minnewaska is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 55 Old 10-27-2019
Senior Member
 
chef2sail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 11,641
Thanks: 131
Thanked 247 Times in 239 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
Send a message via AIM to chef2sail
Re: Automotive antifreeze vs. RV antifreeze for engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by casioqv View Post
I highly recommend Zerex G-05 (aka mercedes benz) coolant. It has much better corrosion inhibitors than anything else, and will make your coolant system parts last much longer. I like to mix it 50/50 with distilled water, since most tapwater is somewhat corrosive also.
Different engines have suggested antifreeze. My Yanmar is a Texaco product.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
___________________________
S/V Haleakala (Hawaiian for" House of the Sun")
C&C 35 MKIII Hull # 76
Parkville, Maryland
(photos by Joe McCary)
Charter member of the Chesapeake Lion posse

Our blog-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


ďSailing is just the bottom line, like adding up the score in bridge. My real interest is in the tremendous game of life.Ē- Dennis Conner
chef2sail is online now  
post #23 of 55 Old 10-27-2019
Old soul
 
MikeOReilly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 4,434
Thanks: 268
Thanked 205 Times in 192 Posts
Rep Power: 11
 
Re: Automotive antifreeze vs. RV antifreeze for engine.

Iíve always run engine coolant through the raw water side of my engineís cooling system as part of my winterizing. In part, I do this b/c this was the way I was originally taught. I also wonder if the anti-corrosive additives makes it a better choice, but I admit I donít really know.

I have wondered about using the non-toxic stuff, which I already use everywhere else. I have no concern about the -50C rating. Even when I sailed out of northern Ontario, where we would get real winters, -50C would have been fine. There is nowhere that people sail (that Iím aware of) where -50C would not be fine.

Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MikeOReilly is online now  
 
post #24 of 55 Old 10-27-2019
Senior Member
 
pdqaltair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Posts: 3,752
Thanks: 4
Thanked 132 Times in 130 Posts
Rep Power: 12
 
Re: Automotive antifreeze vs. RV antifreeze for engine.

No, RV antifreeze does not meet, really, ANY of the requirements for engine coolant (20 years in the industry, including active participation in ASTM, developing tests). No, it does not have the same anti-corrosion properties. Testing has been published in Practical Sailor.

The sole advantage of RV AF is that it is non-toxic to mammals. That is important in the potable water system, but nowhere else. Both are biodegradable, recyclable, and non-toxic to marine life.

Writing full-time since 2014
Author--Rigging Modern Anchors

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

"Keeping a Cruising Boat for Peanuts"
"Faster Cruising for the Coastal Sailor"
"Singlehanded Sailing for the Coastal Sailor"
pdqaltair is online now  
post #25 of 55 Old 10-27-2019
WhatTheKell
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: N NewEngland
Posts: 16
Thanks: 2
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 0
 
Re: Automotive antifreeze vs. RV antifreeze for engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdqaltair View Post
No, RV antifreeze does not meet, really, ANY of the requirements for engine coolant (20 years in the industry, including active participation in ASTM, developing tests). No, it does not have the same anti-corrosion properties. Testing has been published in Practical Sailor.

The sole advantage of RV AF is that it is non-toxic to mammals. That is important in the potable water system, but nowhere else. Both are biodegradable, recyclable, and non-toxic to marine life.
So if I use engine coolant rather than RV AF to winterize my raw water cooled Yanmar I won't be killing fish when I splash the boat in the Spring?

All things being equal, I would prefer the anti-corrosion properties you get with regular old Prestone type AF.
WhatTheKell is offline  
post #26 of 55 Old 10-27-2019
Old soul
 
MikeOReilly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 4,434
Thanks: 268
Thanked 205 Times in 192 Posts
Rep Power: 11
 
Re: Automotive antifreeze vs. RV antifreeze for engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdqaltair View Post
No, RV antifreeze does not meet, really, ANY of the requirements for engine coolant (20 years in the industry, including active participation in ASTM, developing tests). No, it does not have the same anti-corrosion properties. Testing has been published in Practical Sailor.

The sole advantage of RV AF is that it is non-toxic to mammals. That is important in the potable water system, but nowhere else. Both are biodegradable, recyclable, and non-toxic to marine life.
As I suspected. But how much do these anti-corrosive properties matter when weíre talking about winterizing? Weíre not talking about using it in the closed system. Just running it through the open (raw) system to flush out water and ensure things donít freeze and burst.

Do the properties necessary for engine coolant really matter for this application? Or perhaps I should say, how much does it matter. I really donít know. Has that been tested PDQ?

Iíve always used standard engine coolant for the task. I do my best to collect the used anti-freeze before launch, but inevitably much gets spilled into the water. I always feel a tinge of gilt over this, and would feel less guilt if it were the non-toxic stuff. But I certainly donít want to risk damaging my engine.
WhatTheKell likes this.

Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MikeOReilly is online now  
post #27 of 55 Old 10-27-2019
Senior Member
 
pdqaltair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Posts: 3,752
Thanks: 4
Thanked 132 Times in 130 Posts
Rep Power: 12
 
Re: Automotive antifreeze vs. RV antifreeze for engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeOReilly View Post
As I suspected. But how much do these anti-corrosive properties matter when weíre talking about winterizing? Weíre not talking about using it in the closed system. Just running it through the open (raw) system to flush out water and ensure things donít freeze and burst.

Do the properties necessary for engine coolant really matter for this application? Or perhaps I should say, how much does it matter. I really donít know. Has that been tested PDQ?

Iíve always used standard engine coolant for the task. I do my best to collect the used anti-freeze before launch, but inevitably much gets spilled into the water. I always feel a tinge of gilt over this, and would feel less guilt if it were the non-toxic stuff. But I certainly donít want to risk damaging my engine.
No, it's probably not very important for seasonal storage. The article included corrosion testing of RV AF. The better brands did OK.

There is NO DIFFERENCE in marine toxicity between EG and PG. Look up the MSDSs and see. Not birds. Not reptiles. Not fish. US Fish and Wildlife have stated this. Only mammals.

Writing full-time since 2014
Author--Rigging Modern Anchors

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

"Keeping a Cruising Boat for Peanuts"
"Faster Cruising for the Coastal Sailor"
"Singlehanded Sailing for the Coastal Sailor"
pdqaltair is online now  
post #28 of 55 Old 10-27-2019
Old soul
 
MikeOReilly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 4,434
Thanks: 268
Thanked 205 Times in 192 Posts
Rep Power: 11
 
Re: Automotive antifreeze vs. RV antifreeze for engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdqaltair View Post
No, it's probably not very important for seasonal storage. The article included corrosion testing of RV AF. The better brands did OK.

There is NO DIFFERENCE in marine toxicity between EG and PG. Look up the MSDSs and see. Not birds. Not reptiles. Not fish. US Fish and Wildlife have stated this. Only mammals.
Thanks PDQ, very helpful. So given this, it would seem that it really doesnít matter which antifreeze we use ó at least from an environmental impact.

But interesting the differing toxicity impacts on differing animal classes. Seems rather odd that the non-toxicity applies only to mammals. Do you think/know whether this is a case of simply not being tested sufficiently on these other classes to know either way?

Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MikeOReilly is online now  
post #29 of 55 Old 10-27-2019
Senior Member
 
pdqaltair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Posts: 3,752
Thanks: 4
Thanked 132 Times in 130 Posts
Rep Power: 12
 
Re: Automotive antifreeze vs. RV antifreeze for engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeOReilly View Post
Thanks PDQ, very helpful. So given this, it would seem that it really doesn’t matter which antifreeze we use — at least from an environmental impact.

But interesting the differing toxicity impacts on differing animal classes. Seems rather odd that the non-toxicity applies only to mammals. Do you think/know whether this is a case of simply not being tested sufficiently on these other classes to know either way?
This has been tested a lot. Many studies related to deicer runoff at airports. Many of these use many hundreds of thousands of gallons each year.

Writing full-time since 2014
Author--Rigging Modern Anchors

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

"Keeping a Cruising Boat for Peanuts"
"Faster Cruising for the Coastal Sailor"
"Singlehanded Sailing for the Coastal Sailor"
pdqaltair is online now  
The Following User Says Thank You to pdqaltair For This Useful Post:
MikeOReilly (10-27-2019)
post #30 of 55 Old 10-27-2019
Old soul
 
MikeOReilly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 4,434
Thanks: 268
Thanked 205 Times in 192 Posts
Rep Power: 11
 
Re: Automotive antifreeze vs. RV antifreeze for engine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdqaltair View Post
This has been tested a lot. Many studies related to deicer runoff at airports. Many of these use many hundreds of thousands of gallons each year.
Thanks. I appreciate the clear answer.

So my take away is that I might as well stick with the engine (toxic) coolant. It has the slight advantage of various anti-corrosion additives. And neither are good to the marine environment.

Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MikeOReilly is online now  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Automotive Type Alternators vs. Deep-Cyle Batteries Maine Sail Electrical Systems 5 04-05-2016 12:13 PM
Marine Paint vs Automotive SailingV17 Gear & Maintenance 14 07-11-2013 03:23 PM
Air Conditioning - RV Roof vs Carry-On jamesnewsome General Discussion (sailing related) 25 02-15-2012 04:36 PM
Fans - Marine vs Automotive vs PC (Jury Rig) night0wl Gear & Maintenance 15 12-21-2009 08:15 PM
Automotive Diesel mathislaw1 Gear & Maintenance 19 04-09-2007 02:46 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome