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Foul weather gear - clueless as what to buy

7K views 44 replies 24 participants last post by  smackdaddy 
#1 · (Edited)
Hi everyone,

I'm 23 and I'm making my first transatlantic voyage from Portugal - Canaries - St. Lucia in February. I know I need some foul weather gear (I've only cruised in warm water before :), but I'm pretty clueless as what to buy even after a few hours of reading.

I assume my West Marine, two-layer jacket won't do - it' a rubbery nylon material that is waterproof and has neoprene wrist joints that are watertight, but no neoprene for the neck area, just a place where you can get it really tight (but probably not watertight).

I also assume my hodgman's waders w/ built-in boots (100% waterproof) won't do for bibs because they'll fill up with water if I go overboard (god forbid).

Will my rubber oyster/clamming calf-high boots work?

I really don't know if this trip needs serious offshore rated foulies, or coastal foulies, or if anything that I have will work. I assume the Portugal - Canaries portion, while short, is important because it will be the coldest and will have the most chance of weather All help is appreciated!

-Nick
 
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#2 ·
Imagine that you are cold and wet at night and still have hours to go. Ask yourself then how much you would spend to be wrm and dry.

My advice is buy the best gear you can afford. I used to produce a range of goretex foul weather gear but got displaced by the big players when they adopted our designs :-(

However, there is some really good gear on the market.
 
#3 ·
Thanks for the quick reply, so would I be more prudent to buy foulies that keep me very dry and allow me to layer underneath for warmth considering there will be some substantial temperature variation in this trip, or should I get some that offer both dryness + insulation.

Any specific ideas/brands/models/ratings/etc would be much appreciated, thanks again!
 
#4 · (Edited)
Layers are better. Shells that provide good weather protection can be used through a winde range of conditions. You can then add layers underneath to give extra warmth.

The guy who helped me design my gear was from a outdoor adventure background. These guys have been using the layer concept for many years. It gives the most flexibility.

I have not been keeping up with the brands and their features. Musto and Henry Lloyd have always been leaders. But there may be other really good brands out there.

The features I look for are: Neck and wrist seals. Adjustable waist seals on jackets. High bib and brace pants (to give lots of overlap between jacket and pants). Handwarmer pockets. Built in harnesses are also a good idea. If you are going to spend a lot of time on deck padded seat and knees are also really good investments.

Check the performance of the fabric also. As we found with Goretex, breathable fabrics can allow moisture through in some conditions. So check to see the if bum reinforcment is fully waterproof. We used cordura with neoprene bonded to the inside for the bum patch. Provided a waterproof layer and good padding.
 
#5 ·
#6 ·
Heading to the islands may be warmer than we're warning you about, but..; better safe than sorry. It isn't going to snow, but you might start to think it might, it can seem so cold. Layers are good for keeping heat in and being able to keep the driest ones next to the skin. A fleece watchcap (or two) will dry out fast and be comfortable, without taking up a lot of space. For one trip, I don't know if spending 500 euros on foul weather gear will improve the experience that much.
 
#7 ·
Check out the manufactures web sites or go to online stores web sites, there is good information there. The manufactureres rate their gear by usage, ie. inshore lakes, coastal, coastal limited off shore etc. You can pretty much go with that description.

Gill, Henri Lloyd, Musto are all good brands.

If you are on deck, maybe on the rail and green water is coming down on you, you will want a good set. Very good neck seals are important in those conditions.

Sounds like a fun trip, enjoy.

Gary
 
#8 ·
I also assume my hodgman's waders w/ built-in boots (100% waterproof) won't do for bibs because they'll fill up with water if I go overboard (god forbid).

My advice...Don't go overboard. Wont make too much difference what you are wearing if that happens.

rjc
 
#10 ·
+1 layers

Cold weather
1st Layer polypropylene
2 fleece
3 Foulies.
I often wear a wind shirt as well.

Gloves - low tech good old fashioned rubber gloves with a fleece liner

Boots - breathable, if you can afford them. Dubarry is the gold standard, I wear Sperry Fathom's they have kept my feet dry from both sides.

+1 stay on the boat. Inflatable pfd with harness and a good tether.

I would add Helly Hansen to the list of manufacturers of foulies. Love my offshore bib pants.
 
#11 ·
I've made a similar post elsewhere here, but I think it bears repeating.

In the six years I spent on merchant ships on the Great Lakes, my waterproof, non-breathable Helly's were awesome! They were commercial weight, I believe PVC/cotton laminate, and tough as anything I've ever used. That set stood up to a pile of abuse and suffered very little. I wore all synthetics underneath, from polypropylene longies, to fleece, to normal workwear. Yes, they were wet on the inside, but the important parts are 1) my body heat coupled with the synthetics pushed the moisture away from my skin, and 2) even well below the freezing point, I could stay warm by adding a jacket underneath. The idea was that the raingear kept the oUtSiDe water from soaking you and sapping your body heat.

Check the deadliest catch videos on youtube. Those dudes are working in some rough conditions, and they're wearing non-breathable stuff.
 
#12 ·
...Check the deadliest catch videos on youtube. Those dudes are working in some rough conditions, and they're wearing non-breathable stuff.
Funny you brought this up; I met Sig Hansen once (Northwestern) at our annual Seafair Regatta and ask this very question, his answer -"Grundens."

Heavy, non-breathable, but some serious foul weather gear.

Grundens - Quality Foulweather Gear
 
#13 ·
I also assume my hodgman's waders w/ built-in boots (100% waterproof) won't do for bibs because they'll fill up with water if I go overboard (god forbid).
(Disclaimer: I have very limited offshore sailing experience, so take anything I say with a large grain of salt)

Clothes which fill up with water if you go overboard are not necessarily a problem, as the water provides neutral buoyancy. The old myth of sailors being dragged down by their boots is just that, a myth.

Indeed, I suspect (though have not seen evidence) that the opposite may be a problem. If air is trapped in waders it may force your legs to float, preventing you from swimming properly.

Any off-shore sailors have first-hand experience of this?
 
#14 ·
Going overboard is best to be avoided, and having a good PFD/Harness and Tether is the key to staying aboard... that said... I've written an article on that subject you might want to read on my blog.

As for foul weather gear... layers is the key to staying warm and comfortable no matter the temperature. Get the jacket and bibs large enough that you can wear a couple layers under the bibs and a few under the jacket. The legs don't need as much insulation as the body's core.

Also, remember, even in the tropics, a thunderstorm can have rainwater that is near freezing in temperature.... how do you think hail forms? The water in many storms comes from high in the atmosphere, where the temps are near freezing, and it doesn't warm up much on the way down in the storm.

Things to look for in a good foul weather gear set:

First, get a jacket that is cut so that you can move comfortably. If it is too tight, you'll be in trouble. Same with the bibs.

Second, get one that has a high collar and a hood that has an adjuster so that you can keep as small an opening between the hood and collar as possible. This is really key to staying dry in a driving rain.

Third, get a jacket that has an inner and outer adjustable cuff on the sleeves. The inner one should be PVC, latex or neoprene. This prevents water from running down the sleeve when you reach up to adjust a line or something like that. It really sucks to be nice, dry and warm and then have a trickle or stream of near freezing water roll down your arm to your body.

Fourth, decent pockets, including a fleece lined handwarmer set are nice to have.

Fifth, large retro-reflective tape patches should be located on the jacket's chest, shoulders, and sleeves. If you go overboard at night, you'll be glad you have these patches as they make you far more visible.

Sixth, the bib should be high cut so that if you bend over, you'll still stay dry. Having a zipper that allows you to pee without dropping the bib entirely is really useful, but most don't have this for some stupid reason. :D

Seven, having legs that can cinch down around your boots will go a long way to keeping you dry, especially if you fall overboard.

One thing to remember is that a good set of foul weather gear is an investment. It will last for years if you take care of it... and getting the cheap stuff generally doesn't pay off in the long run.

Also, fleece and such synthetics are your friends... I always carry at least one set--tops and bottoms--even on tropical deliveries...
 
#15 · (Edited)
Rules #1,2, and 3 = STAY ON THE BOAT!
A good harness and tether are the most important things.

If I was working in Canada, I'd get Grundens. A tropics one time delivery, I'd buy at least a "coastal" set of bibs and a jacket. For details on the jacket, see sailingdogs post. Good stuff there.

I would not wear the waterproof rubber bibs w/ attached boots. You may not sink if they fill with water, but it'll make you twice as heavy to get back on board. Pulling a grown human in full foulies out of the water is hard. Doing it in bad weather after they've been sailing for day, and the victim is soaking wet is even harder. The rubber boots you have are fine, but thick wool socks, or sealskinz are nice to have as well.

Long underwear made from synthetic material is a great base layer. Then I'll layer the cotton/wool, fleece, and the foulies (shell) goes on top of that.

Gloves are important. My hands tend to sweat when wearing fully waterproof gloves, so I bring a backup set and keep them dry. For offshore stuff 3 pairs of gloves work for me. I really hate being wet.

Bring 2 watch caps, and 2 pairs of sun glasses. For really cold stuff I wear a 'skii mask' type hood that keeps the chill of my face. A towell or scarf aroudn the neck will help keep the water/chill off your neck if you don't feel like putting on the waterproof hood.

Good luck. And this info only pertains to you if you plan on sailing a lot. If this is a one time trip, buy a rubber rain slicker/poncho, and some pants to match. Done. I mean, look how happy these guys are! And they only spent $32!


The sad part is most of the people I see on the bay, the above is all they need. They never sail when there is a chance of high wind or rain, but they have the $800 set of foulies.
 
#17 ·
A couple of comments I'd like to make:

I consider the legs to be like the body's radiator, so if you insulate them the rest of you tends to stay a little warmer. Ditch the extra insulation on the legs to cool down a bit.

Cotton is for warm sunny weather. When you get wet, cotton will wick the heat away from your body like an evaporative cooling unit.
 
#18 ·
Don't wear cotton in colder conditions... it is the worst material, since it absorbs water very readily, stays wet for a long time and sucks the heat out of you very quickly. Synthetics or wool/silk are the way to go.
 
#19 ·
I like silk next to my skin. It just feels so...silky. :D

After that, I layer the synthetics.
 
#20 · (Edited)
"Dress for Success"

While I have done a lot of overnight deliveries over the decades, only a couple of them were five days+ or so. So I'm no expert on spending continuous time on the ocean.
For any night watch, have some good sea boots with either insulation incorporated or room for your thick socks. Do be a bit cautious about the common advice to "add socks" however... as you can end up with boots large enough that they slop around and cause blisters.
While we all like to poke fun a West Marine ("Tiffany by the Sea") and etc...
I am still using their Explorer model of foul weather gear purchased about 12 years ago. Breathable and they keep water out. For MOB prevention I nowadays have a "Mustang Deluxe Auto Hydrostatic Inflatable PFD with Harness", having had one of the earlier SOS brand with the pill go off accidently.

I have a couple of tethers, long and short, from Wichard -- their attachments will not accidently release.

Have a good, really good... hat. I prefer the poly fleece one with the ear flaps, often derisively called "goat roper" hats. Funny looking, but not expensive and warm. Wonderful at 0300 when it's 48 deg F out and damp as heck.

For hands, I have some full finger sailing gloves, but actually get the most use our of fleece lined rubber gloves from a commercial fishing store. These have fairly long gauntlets that will usually stay up inside the elastic cuff on the jacket. They are often under $12.

I would agree with other posters about how solid the Grundens gear is. Not cheap, but proven.

There are multiple correct answers... just try to dress to sit still in a chilly cockpit for two hours at a time at..... 0300... on a moonless night....
:rolleyes:

Keep in mind that Once you get chilled, it takes a loooooong time to warm up again.

I love being out on the ocean. Thinking about this makes me remember fondly a couple of deliveries down the WA coast last Sept. Good shipmates, smooth seas, and well found vessels. Ahhhhh.....
:)

L

ps: was going to u/l a little 8k picture of my pfd, but the site will not allow a picture. Just seems odd.
 
#21 ·
Remember, space is somewhat limited on a cruising sailboat and very limited in your luggage. Think compact and multiple uses. Ditch the waders. Buy zippered dinghy boots. They will give you the traction you need and not take up too much space. I personally own a pair of standard height sea boots which I regret every time I pack them for a trip. Layers is an excellent idea. One find that worked well for me was a pair of fleece wader liners – like sweat pants but with foot stirrups sewn in (keeps them from riding up when you pull your bibs and boots on). I tend to get cold hands and feet so I pack neoprene socks and gloves and I use capline liners to facilitate pulling them on and off.

Warmth is a big consideration. Remember, you will be spending hours on watch with only your clothes to keep you warm (midnight to just after dawn is the coldest). Once in the tropics, most of the squalls will happen during this time too. I wear a lightweight jacket with shorts then. I also have a pair of breathable boating shoes. Boarding waves are infrequent, spray fairly constant (when beating to windward).

The big difference between a cruising sail boat and fishing boat is there is no way of drying your clothes between watches. What starts off wet will stay wet the entire trip. That is why I like breathable foulies purpose made for sailing. They have the features I value like reinforcements in the proper places and fitted for both movement and to keep water/wind out.
 
#22 ·
Nashahid, good foulies are something you can't just mail order. You need to go and try one different makes and models, put the hood and collar up, see how they fit and move on you.

For instance, I'll wear GoreTex (seam sealed, extreme wet weather lifetime guarantee) when it is muggy out, but in cold wx my old Henry Lloyd gear is what I want. There are toggles on the coat that tie into my PFD, keeping it positioned properly. And a beavertail that ensures the coat can't ride up and water won't splash under it. But the way the COLLAR comes up over my cheeks and ears and keeps a cold wind off, that's priceless. The fit of the neck, hood, collar, on a foul weather jacket is either right or wrong, and that alone makes a huge difference.
So go take a look at the shelves, take some serious time to try things on and look at them. Good foul weather gear will be with you for a long time--and you'll never regret a penny spent on it, if it is good and fits right.
 
#23 ·
For a long trip like a transatlantic you might consider two set of foulies. A gore tex one when there is a heavy dew or a drizzle and something completely rubberized for when it is really stinky. Lots of synthetic, like fleece, will absorb moisture from the inside and the totally waterproofing will keep the outside wetness outside. I have never been more miserable on a sailboat than the times I have trusted gore tex to keep the water out. It doesn't.
 
#24 ·
Perhaps its just me but I would avoid Musto gear altogether. I ordered a offshore jacket from them last year that I needed for a trip from Bermuda to NY and when it arrived the quality was absolute crap. None of the seams are sewn strait (so bad that parts of the Velcro are pulling up because the edges are missed by the stitching altogether) Because the jacket arrived late I had no choice but to bring it on the trip and afterwords I couldn't return it. My wife has an equivalent jacket made by Henry Loyd and the difference is like night and day. Could be that I just ended up with with the one jacket made by a worker who was drunk, though its hard to believe because the defects are prevalent.
 
#25 ·
I have a MUSTO MPX jacket and love it. The quality on it is excellent, and it is over six years old... I would call up Musto and talk to their customer service. Chances are likely they'll replace it for you if the quality of construction is as you say it is. Another possibility is that you got a counterfeit jacket, which I've seen happen on occasion. Good marine foul weather gear is expensive enough that counterfeiting of it happens.
 
#26 ·
I dont think its a counterfeit jacket as I ordered it from team1newport.com. Also I did get in tough with Musto customer service and because it had some scuffs from my trip they would not take it back or replace it (they were rather unhelpful). A friend of mine also has an older Musto jacket witch is not as poorly constructed as the one I have is. I dont know if its a new problem that they are having due to cost cutting, or just very poor quality control, but I would at least be weary.
 
#27 ·
Wow thanks for all the great feedback everyone.

First and foremost, I'm not going overboard. I feel bad alarming everyone; what happened is I stumbled upon some bit of information on the internet that described tight sea boots as a danger because if one goes overboard with them, they can't kick them off and thus sink. I will be PFD'ed and harnessed at all prudent times. That little anecdote was the only reason I even mentioned it. Goes to show, take what you read on the net with a grain of salt.

As for the foulies. I've made a decision somewhat. I went to the store today to check stuff out, and try some stuff on. I'm going with a well reputed manufacturer (GILL or Henri Lloyd) Coastal rated set (haven't bought yet). Coastal rated seemed to be more about waterproofing since it was just a shell so I could layer to whatever extent I need to underneath, rather than the Offshore sets which provide both waterproofing and thermal insulation - which I nor the salesman didn't think would be necessary for this or many of my future trips for now (don't like sailing in the cold for large periods of time!)

This also takes into account the large weather variation that I'll experience on this trip - the chillier atlantic side of portugal, the more temperate canaries with the tradewinds blowing in on them, and the hot tropics. I'm confident from everything I've read that a high quality coastal rated set will provide me with the waterproofing I need while allowing me to adjust layers for temperature. The extended periods of time (more than a few days back-to-back) of being extremely wet seems to be what Offshore rated sets seem more geared to. From everything I've read and everyone I've talked to , I may be consistently wet, but not consistently enough for days and days on end to the point where it warrants a $700 offshore set on this trip.

I plan on layering multiple levels of synthetics only (saving cotton for a cool beer in the tropics) as well as a wool shirt or sweater, as everyone suggested. I'll also have a dry stock of replacement layers available at all times if I need to replace or add more.

Anyone who sees any flaws in this decision, please leave feedback because I haven't bought my foulies yet! Thanks in advance!
 
#28 ·
Love the gill stuff, probably my fav. usually good deals in the 'clearance' section. gillna.com

helly hanson foulies are great too. dont much care for the henri lloyd stuff, but that is just 'cause i dont like the cut of it.

also while not expressly for 'sailing' ive got a lot of patagonia midlayer stuff that is really stout and stands the test of time. one of their jackets ive had a decade and its still like brand new.
i would not bother with cotton.
one thing to consider is how much stowage will you be alloted/what type(and quality) of safety gear will be provided. ie a harness?
might want to check out sierratradingpost.com evo.com and moosejaw.com for deep discounts. good luck, have fun.
 
#29 ·
One thing that I would add to your list, especially if you expect hard driving rain anywhere on your voyage, is a set (or two) of decent, vented, ski goggles. Beating through pouring rain or, worse, hail, and you be glad that you spent the extra $100.

There is some excellent advice in this thread BTW.
 
#30 ·
A snorkeling mask works well too...but don't think this is a joke...trying to look out into 30+ knot winds with rain coming at you horizontally sucks unless you have good eye protection. :D
 
#31 ·
While "everything" has been said here about outer layers (I have Henri-Lloyd but if I was buying again I'd get Musto), synthetic under layers should be elaborated on!

Most sailing gear shops don't do much layering stuff. I get mine from outdoor/mountaineering specialists. Here in Canada I use "Mountain Equipment Co-Op" (MEC) but I'm sure there are similar stores in the US. A lot more choice and I suspect they have a lot more experience with this stuff.

On a different note, bibs are such a pain in the a**, especially when you want to pee that I've recently bought one of the newer ones with a zip right up the front and a stretchy, sewn in, top piece (like a waistcoat) where the braces would normally be. This one is a "Slam" so not sure it's real off shore, but I'll be trying it out this season. If it's not waterproof, at least I'll look cool!!!
 
#32 ·
#33 ·
SailingDog wrote "You can see the high collar, retro-reflective patches, adjustable outer cuffs and layered zipper flaps. *It has a bright chartreuse hood with a velcro adjuster, as well as inner cuffs made of latex." in his blog.

"Chartreuse?" "Chartreuse?"!

SailingDog, I think your wife writes the blog. Only a woman would know what colour chartreuse was and how to spell it!:)
 
#34 ·
Ummm....most bass fishermen know the color and how to spell it. If my wife were writing the blog, I'd be seriously impressed....
 
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