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Choosing the Perfect Boat

10K views 108 replies 28 participants last post by  DeeB 
#1 ·
As promised, I am going to ask a lot of questions and here is my first one:

Two people embark on a journey from Marseille to a little island in West Micronesia. One is a very good sailer, a bit of a genius who's been trained very hard by the very best. The other has very little experience but is willing to learn.

They don't want to waste time, so will be stopping as little as possible (four, six times max).

I need you experienced people to suggest the perfect boat for this venture. We're talking a lot of blue water here (we'll get to the itinerary in another thread but first I want to sort out the boat issue).

I'm thinking that since only one of the two is a sailer, it needs to be pretty much a solo affair. Nothing too big but still allowing lots of fresh water on board, although part of the equipment will include desalination unit (I guess?)

Please explain why you suggest a particular boat (reference links very much appreciated) and do not hesitate to add any equipment that you deem necessary.

I know there will be lots of different opinions and maybe even some heated debate. The one to suggest the boat that is chosen for the story gets a dedicated copy of the book, anyone else who offers helpful comments will be included in the acknowledgements ;)
 
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#2 ·
DeeB, might I suggest that you put in your signature that you are an author researching a book? Not everyone will have seen your initial post and think you're truly someone looking to start sailing.
 
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#3 ·
I'll play. :)

How deep are their pockets?
How much prep time do they have?
Hiring extra crew possible?
Do they have a deadline for arrival?
Eastabout or Westabout?
Present-day, or some other time period?
Mostly-sailing, mostly-motoring, or about evenly mixed?
What happens to boat when they get to destination?
DO they get to destination, or do they need a *really good* rescue boat/life raft?
Any constraints on health or physical ability?
Purpose of voyage? e.g., on the run from the law, research, 'because it is there', 'just for fun'.
 
#6 ·
Budget is not an issue but I would like to keep it as small as is realistic.
They want to make it as quickly as possible. This is the best answer I can give you without revealling the plot (same comment for some of your other questions).
No extra crew.
Mostly sailing, as little motoring as possible but they have to be able to face the event of doldrums.
At this point I'm thinking westward (through Panama).
Present days.
We need a boat that will allow them to make it without rescue.

What boat would you choose?
 
#7 ·
IBIS, here: Brokerage

Because: fast, lightweight, built like a tank, 250 gals. of water, tabernacled masts, shallow draft for more safety & range amongst coral reefs, stowage space, and she's a beautiful boat.
(Warning, Dee, I will probably be flamed for promoting a sharpie. Get your Nomex jammies on.)

I mean what follows to be helpful; though it may sound negative, I mean it as constructive criticism. I hope you will accept it as such.

The idea of getting anywhere by boat "as quickly as possible" is an oxymoron. If your protagonists were in a hurry, they would fly. I could, if pressed, contrive some outlandish set of unlikely circumstances that would make sailing the "fastest" way to get from A to B. When I find such artificial contrivances for the sake of drama in my reading or viewing, I lose interest in the story because the author is not playing fair with the reader. The only time I will accept such things is in comedy, if they are played well. That's why I asked the purpose of the voyage - it has to make sense within the context of your characters' story, not just be a peg to hang the story on.
 
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#8 ·
If this is for a book, do you want a boat that might be a bit less than what would be considered a perfect bluewater boat? You know, so the characters find themselves in a harrowing situation. Or do you want a boat the readers will walk away thinking is awesome because it held up even when the crew screwed up?
 
#10 · (Edited)
The boats that people chose tell you a lot about their personalities.

If you hero is adventurous he might buy an old race boat like a obsolete single-handed distance racer like an Open Class 40 or Open Class 50.
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...rency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=78616&url=

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...rency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=77185&url=

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...rency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=76477&url=

If he wants to carry more 'stuff' he might get an old performance cruiser perhaps something like a Farr 44 or Farr 46.
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1992/Farr-44-2601272/SAN-DIEGO/CA/United-States
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1988/Farr-44--2625756/New-Zealand
http://www.farrdesign.com/092.htm

Then again he might do something more conservative but a little less of a performance boat like one of the 'default' distance cruisers, say a Valiant 40/ 42, Peterson 44/46, Halberg rassey 40/42F/46, Passport 42, or Norseman 447.
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1979/Valiant-40-2453159/VA/United-States
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1979/Kelly-Peterson-44-2625110/Charlotte/NC/United-States
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/list...rrency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=1893&url=

If they are smuggling something, those aren't too bad a choice since these are pretty ubiquitous cruisers that don't shout "hey look at me, I am rich and I know it." I can't imagine your character going any slower ou more conservative and still be interesting.

Boats this size allows you to bring a third person aboard for part of the voyage, and carry some surplus weight.

Jeff
 
#13 ·
Here's a try at a more "real" answer...

I'm surprised you haven't heard from more multihull fans. If the weight is carefully managed and the boat is designed as more of a racer-cruiser than just a cruiser, and the boat has sufficient attentive crew, it could be quite speedy. It would have to be dialed back some if it has a smaller crew; a smaller crew has more of a challenge in balancing speed, safety, and fatigue. The speed of multihulls can be weight sensitive, with the degree depending upon the design and purpose of the boat.

Following are very general thoughts about the speed of crossing an ocean on more or less "normal" sorts of sailboats that might be cruised -- someone else may be able to be much more specific and thorough but this might work as a first primer for a writer:

Cruisers crossing oceans can think of the speed of their boat in terms of a reasonable expectation for (sea/nautical) miles made good in a 24-hour period. This typically assumes use of some form of autopilot or wind vane steering, somewhat conservative sail selection, and reducing sail at night or whenever weather is potentially threatening.

Some boats might expect something like an average of 100 nautical miles of progress per 24-hour period; much larger, faster, lightly loaded, better crewed and/or equipped boats that are more designed for speed might do as much as 200 or so.
(Extreme ocean racing boats have of course done better but that's outside the realm of these thoughts.) (For many big ocean crossings, the nominal shortest distance will be on a "great circle" route, but there can be good reasons to deviate from it.)

The average expected performance is normally vastly much slower than the boat's theoretical speed. That might be because of variable (or sometimes no) wind (or lots of headwinds), adverse currents or waves, lack of crew to sail the boat aggressively (such as frequent sail trimming and adjustments), lack of fuel to run the motor often if the wind is light too often (or a dislike of running a motor often/need to save fuel for making electricity or conserve for emergency use), need to slow the boat to reduce discomfort or damage in some conditions, occasional needs for repairs, diversions from the shortest-course track to avoid bad weather or to find better wind, port visits, or any amount of "etc."

There is also some science to being in the right time and place; winds, currents, and storms tend vary (in direction, intensity, and likelihood) by location and season and sailors can use weather routing software or services to pick (and subsequently adjust) routes and departure dates for the best chance of speed and safety. (Jimmy Cornell's book about world cruising routes has been a long-term traditional "Bible" for voyage planning.) Attentive sailors may be downloading and analyzing carefully some very detailed weather information throughout a passage.

And sometimes the success of a passage comes down to plain old luck, of which there are at least two kinds. Well-prepared skippers seem to get more of the good kind. Poorly prepared skippers get more of the not-so-good kind (accidents, breakage, worn-out gear, and ignorance tend to be slow.) But, anyone can get either.
 
#14 · (Edited)
Here's a try at a more "real" answer...

I'm surprised you haven't heard from more multihull fans...
This is ALL excellent information, exactly what I was looking for when I joined this forum. Thank you so much.
You're still not telling me which boat you would recommend for this journey. Marseille, Gibraltar, Panama, Hawaii, Marshalls, West Micronesia. This is a plan for four stops. The person who has chosen the boat knows three things: they care about the safety of the person who is going to sail it, this person is exceptionally talented and they will need to go fast.

As for multihull, I have wondered the same thing as well but have been told that cross ing the Pacific solo on a Cat was as rare as chicken teeth. Of course there is a second person on board to assist with watch etc. BUT the person who selected that particular boat had to assume that a solo was likely.
 
#15 ·
What's fast? And why would you want to speed through these areas? These are awesome cruising grounds. Do you need to get back to work?
 
#17 ·
Obviously if getting from Marseille to Micronesia as quickly as possible was of primary importance, you'd head the other way, through the Red Sea, and take your chances with pirates. So I'm assuming the stops in Gibraltar, Panama, Hawaii, etc. are important to the story even though it about doubles the distance.

Since money is no object and they are starting in Marseille, I'd look at bluewater builders in Europe, assuming they are buying new. If they are buying new they can have the manufacturer increase tankage and even storage, if necessary.

The Finns & Swedes make great bluewater yachts. I'm choosing the Hallberg-Rassy 372. It's CE rating is A - unlimited ocean voyages. Under sail it can easily achieve 8 knots or more. Sail area is 788 sq/ft but can be increased to 1202 with a code zero, great for light air. Standard water tankage is 114 gallons but the main character installs a water maker. It's standard range under power is about 850 nautical miles.

With an aft cockpit and rigid windscreen, the crew is well protected in heavy weather. The owner also had an electric halyard winch installed for easier single-handed sailing and had a Dutchman installed on the mainsail. Another option installed is a Max Prop folding propeller.

It should be fast, comfortable and rock solid, capable of going anywhere but shallow water.

 
#18 ·
If I were quite rich, a "Beowulf"-like Deerfoot/Sundeer (several models) would be lovely -- 68 or so length overall, designed for a couple to handle, but relatively tough boats and definitely faster than the average cruiser. More info is on the Dashew's site.

If I were moderately rich and leaving Marseille on a French boat, it could well be a Super Maramu built by Chantier Amel -- various iterations of the Amels in the 50-foot-plus range, more of a solid cruising design that advertises a "cruising systems" approach. Not designed for speed per se, but the long waterline/greater size than many cruisers, and the design for ease of handling should mean pretty decent passage speed.

If I were not so rich, I could imagine turning an old race boat into a bit more of a cruiser -- but some of these boats are rather high-strung for a short-handed crew to handle. Some of the bigger J Yachts boats that were designed as racer-cruisers might do.
 
#19 ·
like mentioned above,there is nor ever will be a perfect boat! if speed is your issue I suggest fly the friendly skys ,the bigger the boat,wider etc,the more comfortable and roomy but slower, on the other hand its kindof like the tortoise and the hare, is an extra knot or two really a big factor?
 
#20 ·
My suggestion:
* Take sailing classes at a local school with cruising boats.
* Have this conversation with your instructor during a lunch break.
* When the class is over go on a captained trip using one of the cruising boats that is capable of such a voyage and get to sail it a little bit yourself.

The book will read much more authentically if the boat that you write about is one that you've sailed on. It isn't that important that it is a specific make and model, it's more important that when you write a little bit about sailing that it sounds like you've sailed similar boats before.
 
#35 ·
As I said somewhere else:

I am smiling because of the few comments that I've gotten along the lines of 'go sailing yourself' or 'get an instructor'. Who ever said I wasn't?

When I started on this story years ago I had done a bit of scuba diving in the med as a child. Since some of the story has to do with diving, I decided I didn't know enough about it. I left everything behind (job, friends, boyfriend, cats) and went to leave in South-East Asia and the Middle-East for two years. I trained as a scuba instructor so I could support myself. I ended up doing a lot of technical diving and some commercial too. No-one there called me a fraud and I'm hoping my readers won't either. I loved every day of it of course.

Now I'm getting to write another part of the book which has to do with a long sailing journey across the oceans. What do you think I'm going to do? Why would anyone automatically assume that I'm happy with just asking questions on the Internet? What makes these people think that I haven't yet started taking lessons at our local club? Is it lack of imagination, snobbery or arrogance that dominates their thinking pattern? How about we all stopped making assumptions and just got on instead?

The truth is that sailing is a much bigger subject than Scuba, although there probably would be some proud diver to disagree. One instructor, as good as they may be, will not hold all the answers. As Jeff has already pointed out, anyone's answer will only reflect their personality. Even if I wanted to spend another two years writing the book, it wouldn't be enough to give me the combined knowledge that all of you hold. A lifetime wouldn't be enough. So I have to ask, even if it means becoming the recipient of other people's negative, unimaginative projections and uncourteous manners. I don't care. What I'm doing matters too much and anyway and there are so many very good people to make up for the others.
 
#21 ·
I'd look at the entry list of the Transpac. Look at some if the boats am see if there are any that can also be used as a cruiser. One that I may throw out there is a Beneteau First 30. I know of one that's been to Hawaii and back a few times. It's small enough to singlehand if needed and is faster than most cruising boats yet not quite race fast. Has a full interior that's pretty nice. It's something someone with a good chuck o cash would buy.
 
#22 · (Edited)
As you are probably starting to see, just as the boat suggestions reflect the personalities of the people making the suggestion, the choice of the perfect boat is heavily dependent on the personality of your characters, and the personality of the sailing masters your character learned from.

And the choice of the boat, is heavily dependent on the departure time of year and the choice of route. As was noted, if I had to sail a smallish boat to Micronesia from Marseille, I would head for the northern coast of South America using the diurnal winds on the South American coast to get past the duldrums, and then head to South Africa around Cape Horn. I would then stay south and jump to Australia or even New Zealand, before going on to Micronesia.

Going that route takes one kind of boat. Going the opposite direction takes a very different boat. It also says something about the crew. Going the Cape Horn route says you have a serious experienced crew trying to get somewhere fast, the boat would be optimized for the beating it will take along the way. Going the other way says you have 'tourists' who want to take in the scenery along the way.

And while the heading west route can be done in a sub-40 footer that is island hoping in tourist mode, it would be hard to do in serious fast sailing mode in a boat that small. If your characters are serious sailors, concerned with time spent en-passage, and are trying to do this in very big hops as you suggest, then the boat probably needs to be in mid-40 foot range, and comparatively light for its length.

Then again, this response reflects my personality as you probably can see.

Jeff
 
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#25 · (Edited)
As you are probably starting to see, just as the boat suggestions reflect the personalities of the people making the suggestion, the choice of the perfect boat is heavily dependent on the personality of your characters, and the personality of the sailing masters your character learned from.
Not to mention, the nationality of the protagonist would likely heavily influence the choice of boat... Assuming a departure from Marseille might indicate he's French, it would not be very likely his choice would be, say, a Bowman, or a Moody, or a Hunter Legend... :)
 
#29 ·
Here's the story line as I've gathered from Dee:

The main character is a world class woman sailor. A person or persons buys the "perfect boat" Dee is trying to find for the heroine to sail from Marseille to Gibraltar to Panama to Hawaii to the Marshalls and finally to Micronesia. All of the stops are important to the story.

My guess is the heroine either volunteered for this mission or has the proverbial gun to her head and has to go. Whatever the need for speed, that comes from the person(s) for whom she's heading out on this mission. I'm assuming the person(s) behind this mission probably don't care about the heroine's comfort. Dee did say she has to be challenged and she may or may not be singlehanding the boat on some legs.

Early on I was thinking a proven bluewater cruiser. But knowing what I do now, I'm thinking an Open 40. It would work if the heroine had placed well or won open ocean races. And the French seem to have a penchant for these boats.
 
#26 ·
Tsk-tsk. Poor Dee! Has to take a year or two off for some serious sailing to get the details right. Tough job! :)
 
#28 ·
One of the protagonists is " a very good sailer, a bit of a genius who's been trained very hard by the very best."

It's more about finding a believable boat, taking the schooner 'TIKI' over a Mirror dinghy. No offense to Mirror sailors! :)
 
#33 ·
Yeah, I didn't read much of the other posts, but that was what I was going to suggest. Cumfy for the new sailor because of the way she rides on the sea. Easy for the genius guy to rig for solo sailing, and faster than any mono hull will be.
 
#37 · (Edited)
Yeah, sailors can be dicks. Especially the kind that race. You can alway's tell weather or not someone who paints or draws pictures of sail boats has ever spent any time actually using them by the missing heads stays and backwards booms, no anchor line and such. I'm gald you are taking the initiative to do some broad research. This is the perfect place to ask about boat types because the topic comes up all the time here so we are all educated a little from each other on what's what. Collectivly we know a lot. That guy Jeff H knows more about the nuances of all the models out there than any body I've read. The worst book I've read recently was J. Pattersons SAIL. He was way off on how a voyage happens. Good story though. You could read that and get some insight towards how not to write about sailing. Any way's, best of luck to you, looking forward to reading it.
 
#47 ·
Okay people, that's it. I have enough info to start digging in earnest! As promised, everyone who has provided help and support gets included in the acknowledgements, wishing that I could do more. Who knows, maybe one day our respective journeys will bring us to the same port?

Although my sailing experience is still modest, I have 'boated' a bit in a lot of places and different conditions. What I knew already and has been confirmed in this first experience of Sailnet is that boatizens are either wonderful or complete dickheads. I am glad of the first who are thankfully more numerous and, with them, amused by the latter ;)
 
#49 ·
You'll have to work on your reading comprehension skills as well as critical thinking ones. Nope, no mention of sailing til the very end, and that was the entire point. Sounds more like fantasy book stuff to me which is quite boorish on a so called sailing forum. Racing? just enough to know that most are dickheads.
 
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